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Podcast

CX Decoded Podcast: Address Silos and Transform Customer Experience

31 minute read
Michelle Hawley avatar
CX Decoded caught up with Hank Brigman to discuss, among other CX topics, breaking down organizational silos in customer experience.

 

The concept of transformation has been center stage for businesses around the world for some time now, but taking a moment to reflect on what transformation actually means could radically change organizations seeking new life in turbulent times. 

The specter of a looming recession makes the notion of transformation even more enticing — and terrifying — to many business leaders now — especially customer experience leaders. But how do they go about analyzing where silos are blocking transformation, harming customer experience and leaving organizations in a perpetually “frozen” state?

Hank Brigman, senior vice president practice lead for Service Journey Strategies, helps shine some light on the most challenging aspects of customer experience transformation and discusses the inevitable and painful consequences of non-action.

View all the CX Decoded podcast episodes.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Dom Nicastro: Hello all, we're back with another edition of CX Decoded, season three here. Dom Nicastro, managing editor at CMSWire here with my co-host, Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire. My partner Michelle, what's going on?

Michelle Hawley: Hey, Dom, I'm just enjoying another sunny day.

Dom: You are sunny over there. Because how do you know that? Because this is a recording and we're probably not going to run this for another few weeks or so, so how do you know it's still sunny?

Michelle: That's true. I don't know if it's sunny. I was gonna say enjoying another hot day and then I figured I definitely won't know in a few weeks if it's going to be hot still.

Dom: Okay, yeah, you don't. How are the Pittsburgh Steelers doing so far? I think you're a fan of them. Right?

Michelle: I'm a fan of Pittsburgh, mostly baseball. I don't really keep up with the Steelers. 

Dom: All right, because my Pats are going there as of this recording next Sunday. So we'll see what happens. We'll do some trash-talking on Monday morning. All right, let's get to it, Michelle. Today we have Hank Brigman here, SVP Practice Lead at Service Journey Strategies. He's here to talk about customer experience transformation, CX transformation. Love it, how to get there. What's important to know? Steps to take. Actions to take. Can't wait. What holds organizations back? Hank knows all about that. He's been in and around CX for many, many years and in and around a lot of organizations. Hank, how's it going?

Hank Brigman: Dom, going awesome. And I know it's going to be sunny here in a couple of weeks because I'm in Florida.

Dom: The guarantee is set for that, like what, for a three-to-four-o'clock rainstorm that happens every day, all day. I hear. Is that the case where you are?

Hank: Yeah, this time of year thunder and lightning and rain. Four o'clock, just like clockwork, 20 minutes and gone.

Dom: Four o'clock. That's when dinner starts right for all the folks down there.

Hank: That's the early bird. 

Dom: Love it. 

Michelle: Hank, we like to start by getting into our guests a little more. Can you tell us about your role, your company, how you got there, and one fun fact about you that's not related to work.

Hank: So I have the honor of leading Service Journey Strategies globally. We're a CX consultancy, and we focus on helping organizations with their journey focused transformations. And my fun fact, I'll start with it, I actually played a little golf professionally. 

And that was a factor in kind of my evolution into CX because from golf, I got into managing fine private clubs. And I think that's the most challenging customer experience environment on the planet because when you pay $50,000 for the right to pay $500 a month in dues for the privilege of paying $10 for your burger, you kind of have some high expectations, and so you better be darn good at customer — or in that case — member experiences. So started there and then co-founded a customer experience consultancy that I led through to private equity acquisition, wrote a book on customer experiences, speaking all over the world, and got headhunted into this position and loving it.

Dom: Yeah. And, Hank, I believe when we first started talking, you know, me as a reporter for CMSWire and you as the CX expert that I tapped for commentary, I believe you're in the Wikipedia as the founder of some term, right? Related to CX, a pretty important term, it is.

Hank: Yeah, so if you're tired of the word “touchpoint,” I probably deserve some blame because I'm the person that put it in Wikipedia.

Dom: Wait, Hank, we got to clear the air right now because spellcheck in our CMS system, and elsewhere. Oh, right, Michelle, it's “touch point.” It hates when you make it one word. Let's finish this as the creator right now. One or two words “touchpoint.” 

Hank: Dude.One word always.

What It Takes to Achieve CX Transformation

Dom: Okay. All right. We have it recorded now, Michelle. So we are stamping this. I don't care what our editor-in-chief says. I don't care what our CEO says. Brice, if you’re listening to this, you can't change my mind. Hank Brigman said it. He created it. We're going with one word, kids. Okay. It's done. But hey, thanks for that intro and everything. It's great to have you on, you know, we're gonna talk about transformation. 

So I want to start with just talking about transformation at a time like this. It's such turbulence. You know, when I think of transformation, I think of a whole project, the whole to-do list, a whole revamping, you know, total 180 in an organization. Maybe I have that right. Maybe I don't, but I don't think, it doesn't sound like a lot of organizations should be going with that kind of approach if they're in a recession, if they're trying to do cost savings. So what do you think in a recession — looming recession maybe — should organizations take on transformation in CX?

Hank: I think we have to. And there's a lot of talk about transformation in the dictionary it says it's the act or process of changing completely. And we need to change completely, Dom and Michelle, because there's a structural conflict in our organizations that inhibits our ability to optimize customer experience. And so, you know, we've heard about it for years — decades — the complaint about silos, the silo focus, that vertical focus, on the tasks within our silos, and silos can be a department, can be a team, can be a responsibility. I've even seen it be an individual.

But the focus on the tasks within the silos is in conflict with the journeys that traverse through and across those silos. So to me, until we transform away from a vertical siloed focus on tasks, to really focusing on what the customer is trying to accomplish in their journeys, we can't be as good at customer experience as we can be. And that trickles down into as good as we can be with processes, as good as we can be with technology, as good as we can be, really, with our bottom line as organizations. So I think it is time to transform, it's always time to transform and those that transform now around this will be in a competitive advantage position from my perspective.

Related Article: How to Make the Customer Journey More Data Driven 

What CX Transformation Is and Getting Buy In

Dom: Is the word “transform” a little too aggressive? And I mean that Hank, like not in terms of what they're going to do, but how they're selling it in their organization. I mean, is the CFO going to get behind, is a CEO going to get behind, like, “Hey, we're transforming customer experience,” because if I was the CFO right now that would scare the heck out of me.

Hank: Well, you know, I think it's around the context to a degree. So we hear a lot about digital transformation. Well, what does that mean? And we're talking about transforming tools. And so the analogy I like to use is if you're building a house, do you transform tools? Do you have a tool strategy? We want to talk about channel strategy and transforming omnichannel, transforming digital. Those are all tools. We don't transform tools. If we're building a house, what we want to do is focus on the blueprint, the purpose of what we're doing. So to me, I would be excited about my organization if it wanted to transform to what the customer is trying to accomplish, as opposed to transforming around smaller things, or tools. Make sense?

Dom: I can buy that. I'm not a CFO, but I'd buy it if I were one. Start small. Start with the customer. If I'm a CFO, I'm saying yes, yes.

Michelle: Hank, I want to take a step back, if we can, too, because you mentioned the word “silo” and that caught my focus. And you had mentioned that one great opportunity for CX transformation is to go from a silo focus to a journey focus, can you kind of tell us what's the difference between those two, what is a silo focus, what is a journey focus?

Hank: Happy to. So let's look at the departmental silos. We have an owner, we have a team, we have metrics, we have a budget, we have things we do and things we measure. And typically we measure what we do within that silo. So that focus is all vertical up and down within our silo. Whereas the conflict, that the problem we need to solve is that our customers start before our silo, chances are, come into our silos, deal with our tasks, and then go out of our silos. 

And let's just take the example of Michelle, in your house, you need your dishwasher fixed, or you need somebody to come and fix your cable or your air conditioning. Let's think about the silos involved with that. So we have marketing — because maybe you go to the website — need to read something about how to get it repaired. There's an app team, if there's an app that's involved, the web team, certainly because maybe you can schedule on the web, you've obviously got the call center, because a lot of people are going to call. Now you have dispatch sending out the repair person. You have the repair person themselves. You have pricing. Because you know, there's different things they may charge for. You've got accounts receivable because they have to be billed. Now you have to collect the money. So you probably have an app team, and you've got the IVR. And you've got the call center — all needing to be able to collect that money. And then, if they don't pay, you've got collections. 

So how many silos did we just name to get your dishwasher fixed? And all of those silos are focused on what they do. They're measuring what they do. The call center’s measuring their call time and first call resolution about getting you scheduled, what you want, the purpose of you getting your dishwasher fixed is so you don't have to wash your dishes by hand. That's your purpose. That has nothing to do with all of those silos and what they're doing. And so there's just a disconnect, and therein lies the conflict.

Dom: That's a great example, Hank, and if I could ask you like, where should the focus be for a CX leader when you're talking about transformation? In that scenario, obviously, you got the call center. That's very CX, right? What else again, where does the CX leader’s role in that whole process of, you know, marketing, recruiting, procurement, everything — is selling, buying loyalty, where do the CX leaders fall?

Hank: You know, to me, this is the opportunity, Dom. Our CX discipline is young — we’re perhaps early teenagers. If you look at the disciplines of marketing and sales and management and accounting, those are old disciplines compared to CX. And so our discipline started kind of with mapping and looking at touchpoints and experiences and eventually journeys. And that's all really important not to take away anything from that. But when we talk about transformation, again, it's the act or process of changing completely. And here, we do need to change completely, we need to change how we think and how we act away from the tasks within our silos to what the customer is trying to accomplish. And so to me, the CX responsibility is to help the organization see the benefit — and the ROI of that transformation. 

Let me give you just a quick example. So I was working with an insurance company, and they had a team that collected monthly premium payments. And so that team, that journey was again called the task that they do, which was payments. Well, when you talk to the customers about how they viewed their premium payments, it wasn't about paying their premium. To them, what they were trying to accomplish is maintain their eligibility for their insurance coverage. And so the organization changed the name from “payments” to “maintaining eligibility.” And what that did is changed the way people thought and the way people acted internally. Those changes moved metrics. 

So first call resolution around maintaining eligibility or payments improved, transactional net promoter score improved, this was a multibillion-dollar company that many people think that changing that name, improved the cash flow for that organization. And so it's taking the focus away from the tasks that we do as CX leaders and getting the organization to look at what the customer is trying to accomplish. And is there any greater definition of customer-centricity than focusing on what the customer is trying to accomplish?

Related Article: Drive Growth by Improving Your Customer Experience Strategy 

Why ‘Renaming’ Is an Important Step in CX Transformation

Dom: I can't think of one. Touchpoint. No, no. Okay. That was a different conversation. That was a different conversation. Okay. What's in my mind, though? One word, one word? No, well put. Great example, too. I love these examples you're giving, they're really helping us see it. Right. See it in action. 

So in speaking of transformation, another thing you talk about, Hank, is discussing, transforming CX is to do these things, it's to identify, it's to rename, adopt and measure journeys. One of the things that intrigued me in those four is the “rename.” That's very interesting. What do you mean by the renaming of transforming CX?

Hank: Well, that example I just gave was the company renaming, but it's a great question because this is an extraordinary step that can be relatively simple, that has amazing impact on organizations. Because again, if we can identify, so the first step that you mentioned, is identify. 

So we need to identify our primary journeys, what are the five or eight primary journeys that our customers take with us, that together make up their end-to-end journey. And so we need to identify those and then we need to rename them all. The adopt part is to adopt that nomenclature. And then we need to measure now what those journeys are. So we talked a little bit about the call center measuring first call resolution or call time? Well, we need to keep that. That can be important. But we need to measure the customer's ability to easily accomplish the purpose of their journey because we have those little measures in our verticals. And then we have net promoter score, which is kind of a macro relationship metric. But really, we need that in-between metric, that measurement of what the customer is trying to accomplish. So the rename, once we adopt that, as an organization, it helps everybody in the organization change the way they think, and then change the way they act. And this relatively simple step of identifying, renaming, adopting, and then measuring around that can be accomplished relatively quickly. 

And this has and has had and shown to have extraordinary impact on customer-centricity. It moves culture. And back to your question about what can a CX leader do around transformation. You know, we all talk about customer-centricity. But that's a cultural play. How do we change culture? I just described a way that we can change culture, move people's perceptions and focuses from the task that they do to what the customer is trying to accomplish. That can change culture, and it will move needles in the meantime and deliver potentially in probably an extraordinary ROI. So the renaming, great question, because it's a relatively, I won't say simple, but it's simple compared to the extraordinary benefit it can deliver in the steps of transformation.

Related Article: The Most Important Components of the Customer Experience 

How to Move CX Transformation Needle and Break Up Silos

Dom: And reminds me of when I was at a daily newspaper, one of our editors forced us. Like when we were doing the story budget for the next day, you know, listening to stories, we had to fill in a little section that said, “Why should our readers care?” Right? And right, so because we could come up with the best story idea, and you know, the best pitch and it sounds great, I have a great working headline, I talked to three people, got a great story coming out, it's going to be a blockbuster. And we would always ask that humbling question, though. Why should readers care? Right? Well, how is this going to impact their life? Are we moving the needle with them? Are we making them mad, glad, sad, scared, what's the goal? Right? What's the goal of that story? How do we, how are we helping their lives? 

So I love it. I love that approach of asking just that simple question of how does this tie back to our customers' goals, life, objectives and hopes and dreams? I mean, it adds up. Hank, as you're talking, is this going to take a lot of resource time, energy, effort? Because I'm trying to remember I know, you know, you might work with larger organizations, large and small. I'm trying to remember that team, right, that maybe doesn't even have a chief customer officer, they just kind of do it. They don't really know who owns CX, is this transformation process going to be taxing on a small team? Can they pull it off as well? 

Hank: The question is, what's the pain if they don't? Because the inefficiencies that the silos create, and especially over time. So you know, we think about an organization that starts and as they grow, and especially if there's fast growth, and large old companies can all of a sudden engage in fast growth. 

But you know, every engagement I've been in, in customer experience employees have said to me, “Hank, if I could get this department or this person, or this team to do this, it would be so much better for the customer. So much better for our efficiency.” Organizations are extraordinary at bolting things together just to keep going and getting things done. But that bolting process and tools and again, the silos become a factor here. 

Learning Opportunities

There's just an extraordinary amount of inefficiencies in organizations because the siloed focus perpetuates that they have their own tools and their own data and their own metrics. And so it perpetuates these inefficiencies. So the question to me to a degree isn't, “what does it take,” “it's what happens tomorrow if we don't start this today,” we're worse tomorrow.

 And we're worse the next day. And our competitors who may be taking these transformational steps are going to leave us in the dust both in terms of the customer experience and the benefits that that delivers. And we don't need to go into all the data that shows the benefit of being customer-centric, compared to those companies that aren’t but then the efficiencies in the effect on the bottom line. So I think large, small, or gargantuan the day you don't start to undertake this is another day that you deal with the pain of this, in the cost of this and the potential market disadvantage of this as your competitors do.

Related Article: Building a Gold Standard for Consumer Trust

Empowering Employees Key to Transforming CX

Michelle: So Hank, would you say that a lot of the transformation or the problems around transformation, come back to empowering employees? And that's something that we've interviewed people about before. And we hear about these silos in the customer experience. And a lot of it comes down to employees not knowing how to take the next steps when a customer comes to them with a problem or needs help with something because they weren't given the tools to give that help.

Hank: Michelle, that's a great question. It's all kind of tied up in this gnarly knot, the frustration that employees have with silos, again, as I noted, is expressed all the time, and one of the challenges that organizations have and that the employees have, employees don't feel heard. They tell us about this. They've been telling their managers, they've been telling their leaders about the issues and problems with the processes and the focuses that hurt their organization and hurt their efficiencies, and hurt their customers. 

And yet, the organization, really, I think, to date has been kind of frozen. They haven't known how to address the siloed issue, the siloed problem. And so kind of back to you know, Dom, your point earlier about the, you know, the CFO and how do you get your hands around this? And how do you take these steps, the employees have felt a lack of empowerment, and maybe they have the communication tools. But then the organization doesn't have the tools and haven't had the tools or the processes or the ways forward to date to address the kind of inherent nature of these siloed problems. 

And so I think that as the opportunities and the ways and means and the tools and the blueprints and the structures and the steps of how to become journey focused versus siloed focused, continue to be developed and evolved. I think as more organizations are then going to be in a position to empower their employees. Because once we develop the focus on what the customer is trying to do, we start to break out of that siloed focus because the problems that the employee feels disempowered about, maybe up or downstream outside of their silo, and that's where they have no power, their leaders have no power, because again, it's outside of the silo. So these barriers, these vertical barriers of the silos, I mean, it's multifaceted in terms of how it manifests itself, inside organizations, but disempowering employees, to your point, is one of the primary manifestations of the siloed environment.

Dom: And I have a perfect example of that, that I saw from my own eyes, and great, great point, and Michelle probably knows what I'm gonna say, I always tell the story. But I was in, you know, a pharmacy, and I wrote about it. And a gentleman tried to get his vaccine and the woman, the pharmacist said, “No, you can't.” And he says, “Why? She says, “Because you didn't sign up digitally, you didn't sign up online.” He says, “What if you don't have a computer? She said, “I'm sorry, sir, you have to sign up online.” 

That to me was a case of the leaders in an organization not empowering their frontline employees with the right tools. And it comes back to your earlier point about not answering the question, what is the customer's objective? What is their goal? How do they want to accomplish their goal? 

This elderly gentleman probably in his 80s lived right around the corner, I think, and in like an elderly complex. He just was doing his errands for the day, probably does one trip of errands every two weeks. And he just wanted to get his vaccine done. And they did not let him. It was not the problem with the frontline employee, she was just following the rules. They didn't give her the power to do so. They did not give her the empowerment. So I guess I can put that into a question and say, is this the case simply of these leaders and organizations not thinking enough about the customer journey?

Hank: It is. And so, you know, that's the problem. And here's the solution, Dom, whether it's the journey of the individual to get a vaccine, or Michelle needing to get her dishwasher repaired, nobody owns that journey because people own pieces in the silos. And so the solution, once we rename and adopt and measure these primary journeys, the next step, the way to address the conflict, is to layer a journey structure over our siloed structure. 

So what do I mean by that? So we've now defined our journeys, just like our silos, let's give the journey and owner, let's give the journey a team. Let's give the journey metrics. Let's give the journey accountability. So now, and not everybody in an organization is going to be on a journey team, let's think about mapping or blueprinting. We get a team together that maps a journey, and they map it and all of a sudden all sorts of action items are developed. And then they break up, they go away, nobody owns the journey, still, they go back to their silos, why not keep a team together, that forever owns the journey that has the vision of the whole journey to get Michelle's dishwasher fixed, or to get an individual a vaccine. So that now there's a perspective that says somebody owns the fact that you know, yeah, great app, it's online, but we also need to have a manual way, because somebody owns it. Because the person who owns the app, they're all happy, they did the digital work, it works fine. They told their boss, everybody's happy, let's go but nobody owned the whole journey of what the customer is trying to accomplish. And therein lies a solution, if you will, to this vertical conflict between silos and the horizontal journeys that traverse across them. We can't get rid of silos. We need to duplicate aspects of that structure and layer them over silos.

Related Article: How to Be a Digital Transformation Champion

Who Owns Customer Experience in an Organization?

Michelle: Is there a specific team that you think should own CX and that's something we come back to a lot here at CMSWire? Why are we talking about well, maybe marketers should own CX? Maybe everybody should own CX? But who should really be taking the lead on that?

Dom: Not Michelle's dishwasher company? That's for sure. No? Terrible. It's like, your dishwasher broke three times already in this podcast.

Hank: Exactly. And those dishes are piling up, anyway. So here's the way I look at CX. I look at CX kind of like HR and IT. CX shouldn't be in one of the departmental stages of the journey. A lot of companies put CX in marketing — well, you know, marketing isn't a part of the whole journey marketing. You market then you sell then you onboard and you service in your account. So marketing is a step in the whole journey. Now that they have some tentacles elsewhere, whereas It and HR are kind of journey agnostic. And CX needs to be journey agnostic. 

Because if you put CX inside marketing, how do people in accounting view somebody inside marketing? Well, that's marketing, they're over there. They have nothing to do with us. Stay away from us. We're accounting, you’re marketing, whereas accounting looks at IT differently. Because they need IT, IT helps the whole organization, they help all the departments. So to me CX needs to report into the C-suite, they need to have a table at the C-suite, and they need to be journey agnostic or departmental, if you will, kind of sort of agnostic, similar to HR and IT.

Michelle: Going back to these steps that CX leaders can take to transform CX, one recommendation you made was that leaders should align their tools and data flow across five critical activities. What are those five critical activities?

Hank: Yeah, and, again, silos are an issue. But the five activities are profile, who are you? And do we have a unique identifier in a way to identify  preferences and consents? How can we compliantly communicate with you given the plethora of privacy issues, and laws and regulations domestically and internationally? Analytics, so okay, we know who you are, we know how we can communicate with you. But now we need to pull data from our data lakes, understand what have you bought from us, you know, where have you been on our website, etc., etc. And then there’s mapping. 

So there's a lot of emerging technologies around these five activities. But some of the technologies today can in real time, look at the touches you have. And based on the previous hundreds, or thousands, or tens-of-thousands, hundreds-of-thousands, or millions of touches along these two, or three or four sequential touchpoints, with a high degree of accuracy, determine what journey you're on, are you trying to pay a bill or you're trying to get your dishwasher fixed, whatever the case may be. And so with those four steps, those four activities, we know who you are, we know how we can communicate with you, we know more information about you in terms of how you've engaged with our organization — in real time now, we know with a high degree of probability what you're trying to accomplish. 

The fifth step, the fifth activity, then is to develop and deploy touchpoints, some call it orchestrate touchpoints. And these can be in real time, that are going to help you accomplish the purpose of your journey, or be relevant to you in terms of an offer, or an option that would be helpful or of service to you. So again, these five activities, profile, preferences and consents, analytics, blueprinting slash mapping, and then developing and deploying touchpoints. 

And that the technologies in the emerging technologies around these five activities really are extraordinary in terms of the capabilities that they make available to organizations today. Now, a challenge is that there isn't a single platform that serves all five of these activities. And in fact, I looked at the kind of the rating reports around some of the platforms that serve these five activities, counted 574 different platforms. So there's 574 salespeople out there trying to sell you pieces of these five activities, but the ability to synchronize — to better synchronize — these five activities and the data flow between them, and then look at kind of what are some of the emerging technologies that may fit in our current stacks, that would dramatically impact our capabilities around developing deploying real-time touches based on the purpose of this individual and their journey can be really powerful then, in terms of conversion and improving efficiencies, reducing expensive channel shift, etc., etc. And so as we think about CX and the future of CX, some of the emerging technologies and our ability as CX leaders to look at these emerging technologies through the lens of these five activities, and breaking down those silos, and incorporating the journey view really can be powerful, in outcomes to our customers, to our employees, and obviously, to our organization. So those are the five activities. 

Related Article: My Top 3 Lessons Learned as a CX Leader 

The Takeaway: These 4 Steps Can Have an Extraordinary Impact

Dom: Excellent. And Hank, you know, wrapping things up. I mean, we've covered so much ground, thank you for the totally awesome examples that you wove into your thought leadership here because that is the formula, I think, you know, for a great podcast to (pat myself on the back) to illustrate how these things happen, how you see these things happen with vivid examples. 

And so I wanted to wrap up here with a couple more questions. And the last one, you know, as terms of the content is really looking at one huge final takeaway, well, maybe two, I think, I think the first one is Michelle, don't put regular soap detergent in your dishwasher because it will be all sudsy. And you'll have all kinds of problems. The second one, though, is what's the big takeaway, if I'm a CX leader, from this podcast, Hank, let's say if they end the podcast, and they want to do something from this, what's the first thing they do?

Hank: You know, I think the low-hanging fruit with the biggest impact, Dom and Michelle, is to identify, rename, adopt and measure those journeys. Doesn't take a lot, but that can have extraordinary impact in a relatively short period of time. 

So to start to deal with the conflict, there's a lot subsequent to that. to deal with the conflict, but the first steps can be extraordinarily powerful. And, you know, it's going to take a little bit of time. And the adoption part, you know, whether you do internal trainings, or an explainer video or something, to get the organization to understand the new names of what they do, and to get people to use those names. Change management can be a factor. But anyway, to me, the starting point, the relatively easy first step that has huge potential impact for CX on a cultural basis to change the way we think to change the way we act within our organizations, and impacting things for customers, for employees, for our efficiency, for our bottom line, I think it's there. And it doesn't take that long and it’s not that difficult.

Michelle: Like, we know, you've done some CMSWire webinars recently, and we're going to provide the links to those can you share with our audience, the best ways to follow your thought leadership.

Hank: Happy to please connect with me on LinkedIn, I welcome that. There's a white paper I recently wrote that goes into a lot more detail around some of this called “How to Win the Journey Economy.” And you can follow me on LinkedIn servicejourney.com is the site for the organization. And that's where you can download the white paper as well. And, you know, reach out to me, you know, if you can't tell, I love this stuff. And I'm happy to help in any way that I can. Just bounce ideas off me. Share resources. Whatever I can do to help you. Don't hesitate to reach out.

Dom: Thank you so much. You got a ringing endorsement from our producers in the background here. “Love this guy. He is so easy to follow and illustrates his points so well.” That could be a testimonial for you, man.

Hank: Well, I think it's all about good questioning. But you know, that's one person's opinion.

Dom: Ah. Throwing it back. Love it. Hank, thank you for joining us. I knew you'd be great. We talked in the past. It's why you're here. We really appreciate your time here on CX Decoded. Thank you so much. Hey, stay with us CX Decoded for all things customer experience. Hank Brigman, once again, thank you so much. 

Hank Brigman's CMSWire Webinars:

How to Create Exceptional Customer Experiences and Optimize Outcomes

Exceptional Omnichannel Customer Experience: What it Looks Like, How to Achieve & Measure it

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