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Get the NewsletterDrupal and Joomla to Lose Market Share to concrete5 Web CMS?
If you were to believe all the hype surrounding concrete5, an open source Web content management system, then a remarkable new system has just gone on General Availability (GA).
While its usually a good idea to give every company a hearing and every piece of software a trial run, generally PR emanating from a company about their own product should be taken with even the tiniest pinch of salt.
Especially when they are claiming to be better than Drupal and Joomla, two of the most well known open source web content management systems.
Big Processing Power, Easy-To-Use
They claim that concrete5 matches Drupal and Joomla in its processing power, but that unlike concrete5, these systems were built by developers and for developers forgetting about the ‘little guy’ who has to use a content management system for his business, but does not have the resources to employ developers.
With concrete5, an open source web content management system, its developers say building your website is both easy to do and in the long term, easy to run.
They also claim it combines the ease-of-use of a blogging platform and the power of a web development platform.
Version 1 Built For Flexibility
concrete v1 emerged on the scene in 2003 in Portland, Oregon, when the developers built it from scratch in PHP 4, developing a system that they say is highly flexible and in keeping with three basic principles:
- Ease of Use: The system had to have an easy-to-use interface that would allow even the novice builder construct a website.
- Adaptable: It had to be adaptable so that a solution to any content-related task could be either built in or added on as an extension with the user defining how the site would work, not the technology or the capabilities of the system defining it.
- Powerful: It needed to have quite a lot of power behind it as the original version was built as a site for a local AdCouncil and would have a high connection with TV advertising — with up to 10,000 visitors to the site per second at peak TV viewing times.
New Features With v.5
concrete v5 was released in June last year. This is the version that has just gone on General Availability. The developers say this version has succeeded in achieving the goals they set for v.1.
There are a number of new features with v.5:
- First and foremost, given the importance simplicity of use for concrete, the file manager interface has been revamped and there is now improved searching and ordering connected to this redevelopment.
- They have also integrated the image editor from picnik.com which allows users manipulate images from within the browser.
- Automated site augmentation allows users to shop for add-ons and other pieces of associated software that will allow users adopt concrete5 to their own needs. These add-ons can be found in the Concrete marketplace and will be automatically installed without coding issues or opening FTPs.
- An advanced permissions system gives greater definition to who can access certain files and how those files can, or cannot, be changed
- A new help system connecting directly to concrete5.org will communicate results and queries to users in real and real quick time.
- Site owners will also be able to make edits directly onto a page that needs manipulation by virtue of a toolbar that gives them that power.
File Manager Interface has been redesigned
In essence, concrete5 brings a ‘playing with Lego’ concept to the building of websites with very few limitations to what can be conceived, designed and built by this new system.
GA Will Put v.5 To Market-Wide Test
With the announcement of the General Availability of concrete5, there are a number of testimonials as to the efficacy of this version. While no one is disputing the veracity of these case-studies, it remains to be seen as to whether the wider market takes to it or not.
Taking market share from the likes of Drupal and Joomla would appear to be a very difficult thing to do. The communities for these two open source web content management systems are extremely large and strong.
We will be watching to see what happens.
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C5 is way better than drupal and joomla… I think its the best thing thats happened to the web!
Been using c5 for a couple of months now and I absolutely love it! blows the other cms's out of the water!
I've been doing a lot of c5 stuff lately and I'm not switching back for sure!
man, C5 is a marketing Buzz, I tested and its sucks for hard core developers, its a good candy for casual html editors.
how can you guys claim that its better than Drupal and/or Joomla, you wish it was half as powerfull as Joomla or Drupal
yes C5 will get some market share, but definitely not going to take it from Joomla or Drupal , it even sounds funny :D
if someone objects this, I want to know 3 reasons why C5 is better than Joomla or Drupal.
I've changed my CMS recommendations from Joomla and NanoCMS depending upon the scenario to Concrete5… I basically don't have to teach people how to use it and then get calls later asking how to change x, y, or z because stuff is buried deep within multiple similar confusing menu structures. Granted, the pre-made plugins and 'blocks' arent' there yet for Concrete5, but it isn't difficult to develop them and integrate them into Concrete5 either.
Short of it - Concrete5 is easy to use for both developers AND their clientele!
Those first three comments all sound suspiciously alike, down to the exclamation mark at the end!
C5 seems to be following the same “flash-in-the-pan” style marketing strategy as ExpressionEngine. Mass publicity, plenty of positive reviews, and scores of “front-end designer” types claiming that C5 is the “best thing since sliced bread.” But before you call now because operators are standing by, you need to read the fine print. C5 is a Content PRESENTATION system not a Content MANAGEMENT system. Developers be warned that C5 is a pretender to the Drupal CMS throne for the same reason you don't use Legos to build a skyscraper! Better than Drupal?? Please!
Come on Leafbreeze , just because you don't know how to use c5 does not make them unusable, you are probably stuck with all your Drupal issues and don't want to learn something new, understandable, but give the software a chance, come out of your Drupal poop world.
Drupal is just too damn hard to use for newcomers and the community is full of a bunch of Drupal snobs. I've used Joomla quite a bit but there's a lot of bloat in there that I often don't need. I LOVE Wordpress, but getting it to do more than a blog is like pulling teeth. I am looking forward to trying a combo of C5 for my main site with a Wordpress blog at its side. More CMS choices = good thing!!
Yes, I agree that Drupal has a learning curve and that it still isn't as user-friendly as everyone wants. However things are changing quick. Check out the video about Lullabots new project Buzzr at http://www.lullabot.com/articles/buzzr-demo-video-making-drupal-usable.
This is the direction D7 is also moving. Usability is a top priority in the whole Drupal community and have been for some time now. However, it will still take some time before it is propagated from ideas to production ready software.
We've been using Concrete for years now and LOVE C5. We've also been using Drupal and there are good things to be said for that platform as well. We've also built some crazy stuff for both platforms and I got to tell ya, C5 has been much easier. Everything in Drupal takes so long and clients really like the usability of Concrete so much more then Drupal. Can't speak much of Joomla as we've only done one small project, but I can't see why I'd want switch now.
Yes, C5 doesn't have the following, yet, and therefore there's not as many “blocks” (modules), but I'm sure they are coming!
Hmmm, looks promising. And if web buzz is anything people seem to be pleased with it.
@Leafbreeze Not sure where you are getting the content presentation vs. content management argument. Doesn't really make sense. Every content management system is a content presentation system as well, otherwise you are delving into information and document management. And concrete5 as well as the web buzz surrounding them state that they are a CMS.
Should be interesting to see how they stack up in the upcoming PacktPub awards this year.
While I question whether C5 carries the programming punch of a system like Drupal (indeed, I am sure it does not), the simple fact is that client's love the C5 admin interface — something you certainly can't say about Drupal. (Surprisingly, the majority I have shown it to prefer it even over the Joomla interface, which I have always thought was dead simple.)
So, if we look at this from a buyer's perspective, yes, C5 is a contender. Certainly for basic marketing sites I can see this grabbing market share from Joomla at the very least.
best,
ric
If you check out the marketplace on concrete5.org you'll see a few items which I've published. And if you click on my profile you'll see that all the sites I've published lately are concrete5 sites.
I'm probably one of the most active community members there and I can say for sure that it is more than just a presentation system. It has a MVC system underneath the hood which you can easily extend and do all kinds of stuff.
I'm definitely not into marketing. I do believe in Concrete5 as a developer, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time on concrete5.org.
It's easy to use for my customers and still easy extend and customize..
@Leafbreeze: I think you are right to say that C5 is different from Drupal and honestly everybody knows it. The thing is that until now, there was no alternative to the '2 giants'. This has been quite frustrating for lots of users wanting to handle their website without hiring web developers/agencies. Of course anyone studying 'nodes and taxonomy' can get out a few pages from Drupal but to really build a nice website needs to be expert.
This is why there has been a growing demand for something easier and more intuitive (CMS Simple / Made simple, etc…). That also explains why a great number of people modified Wordpress to use it as a CMS. Still its roots are blogging and it remains as this.
So C5 is for sure answering a need and I wish they will go on developing it so that it has even more functions/options.
I am not part of C5 team, just a user who likes the concept and want to support them, that's all :-)
We never claimed to be more powerful that drupal, we claimed to be easier to use. We claimed to be more powerful than wordpress when used as a CMS - which is pretty obvious.
“powerful” is a subjective word, but I think thoughtful programmers who spend the time to actually get under the hood would agree to both statements.
If other people want to say we “smash” things and are better, I'm not going to stop them.
I would be the first to agree that building a complicated application with limited/no CMS needs is beyond the realm of what concrete5 is great at. I would frankly argue that a framework like Zend or Symfony is probably a better idea than the anarchy that is drupal' -but hey, if you're already an expert at drupal, more power to ya.. Whatever boat gets you across the river.
I will also be the first to admit that our documentation needs love, and because of a year of very deliberate UI work it is easy to look at concrete5 and think it is “for designers.” This is simply not the case however, its is OOP, it is MVC, it is a flexible, well thought out system that we've used to build sites with a million + pages in them.
We're not just confident we'll compete handily with drupal and joomla in the big picture because we have a better mousetrap today (which we do, sorry lullbots/buzzr is a pre-alpha project that is looking for funding, they've got a lot of work before that's production ready by their own admission) The reason why we think there's an opportunity here is the same reason Acquia does. Community is what this is all about, not functionality. Everyone nods their head in agreement when that's said, but it seems that no one thinks about it. Sheer numbers don't help you. You need a community that co-operates. You don't need 300 permission add-ons, you need some permissions in the core that work. You don't need competing project teams that create such customized solutions that then render the rest of the community's contributions useless, you need some governance that encourages contribution, but gives the end site owner (be they designer, developer, or guy in a basement) a library of stuff they can actually add to their site without breaking it, and the support they need to keep their site behaving well for years.
That's what I'm thinking about, what's drupal thinking about? I see acquia talking about that, but it feels like they're almost at odds with the drupal community over it. I want to make a place where independent open source developers can make a career for themselves in creating add-ons they might sell and providing services around it.
Drupal = myspace.
concrete5 = facebook - still a community, but no, please keep your half baked Sparklez add-on out of my library. ;)
difference in philosophy, but yeah what's under the hood is solid and deserves the real attention of thoughtful developers.
The big problem with C5 is being stuck with MySQL. If it supported Postgresql, I could think about using it. But, MySQL, not in my enterprise.
The potential of this program will be in its templates. I support the branding to underdog at wordpress and Joomla just for the sheer initial bark. I love notepad++ , the xml with flash combinations of flashden, Flash catalyst, and the mighty dreamweaver and wordpress and joomla and typolight but still I search and Concrete5 appears and grabs my interest … like a shiny sword. YES! this is the one! The fleet is complete.
I'm really more in Drupal but i can't(nor i want to) get C5 out of my mind ever since i saw how it works. No doubts that i will use C5 for my next project or at least i'll try. However, i beg you guys not to start a holywar between these great CMSs/Frameworks, as they are pretty good in their own way.
Concrete5 seems like a decent CMS (I haven't thoroughly delved into it. just played around a bit). But it's obviously not a contender with Drupal or Joomla at this point. Perhaps down the road it may be but it seems a little thin on the plugins/add-ons and more complex functionality. The big thing I noticed was the usability of the user interface. I'd imagine clients would be able to wrap their heads around C5 much quicker than Drupal or Joomla.
Drupal is WAY better than C5! Drupal evolved to have both MySQL and PostgreSQL support. A few people use pgsql for their relational database management system (RDBMS). Drupal will include MSSQL and Oracle support in the near future. C5 has no plans (at least not yet) to add support for other RDBMSes.
To Jon:
If MySQL can power Craigslist and their 27 million daily pageviews I think it's good enough for C5 and any site that can be built with it. Or Drupal for that matter.
Also, C5 may not be as mature as Drupal but that's why it's so great. It's not bloated like Drupal. And, unlike Drupal, it's actually user friendly.
Ever have to train a customer to use Drupal? Miserable…
Guys this looks great… It looks like real class act, something an agency would be proud to deliver their clients.
It won't be long until Drupal and Joomla and Wordpress begin to lose popularity, I am fairly certain it has already happened to Joomla, just too many people getting hacked…
This looks like a good NextGen… Looking forward to seeing how well you guys hold up over the next few years… Who knows, Maybe 3 years from now, Concrete5 will be the “Wordpress” or “Joomla”, and the Wordpress/Joomlas will just be another PhpNuke or Mambo.
A drupal vendor's evaluation. C5 offers a terrific way to expand functionality. MVC architecture, blocks, packages & core overriding etc. With such a solid foundation to expand on why not move to C5? The answer is C5 couldn't compete in the commercial CMS market so they changed their angle to selling their most useful plugins. As a vendor choosing between a smaller closed developing community vs. Drupals massive open development community I would choose Drupal. This alone is the reason why drupal is successful. C5 will hopefully realize that we’re not buying their pitch. Having said that. C5 is an awesome product. Nice work C5 team!
I just found C5 this weekend, and I'm already in love. I have 6 sites running on Drupal, and started converting one of them to C5 already. I love how it already has integrated Google Maps, forms, surveys, and much more in the core software.
With Drupal you have to download, upload, install, and configure these modules and HOPE you have the right ones!