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Customer Experience Decoded is CMSWire's semi-monthly podcast designed to deliver insights from leaders driving the evolution of customer experience, with an emphasis on digital touch points, customer journeys, respectful data management and voice of the customer.

Each episode is designed to help you better understand how industry leaders are managing customer experience and the value these practices can bring to your customers' and employee's daily lives.

In this episode of CX Decoded, Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro sits down with Miranda Collard, Global Chief Client Officer at TP, to explore her remarkable journey from headset-wearing agent to C-suite leader.

Season 4, EPISODE 18

Aug 18, 2025

In this episode of CX Decoded, Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro sits down with Miranda Collard, Global Chief Client Officer at TP, to explore her remarkable journey from headset-wearing agent to C-suite leader. With over 30 years in the contact center industry, Collard shares hard-earned insights on how frontline experience shapes leadership, why AI’s real impact often happens behind the scenes, and how emotional intelligence can be scaled as a CX differentiator. Listeners will also hear how empowering agents and turning insights into action can transform customer journeys in 2025 and beyond. Whether you lead a global CX organization or a small team, this conversation offers practical strategies for blending technology, empathy and execution to deliver experiences that truly last.

From Headset to C-Suite: Miranda Collard on CX Leadership

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Hey everyone, Dom Nicastro here, editor-in-chief of CMSWire.com, back with another episode of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/podcasts/cx-decoded/" target="_blank" title="CX Decoded">CX Decoded</a>. Today we’re diving deep with someone who has spent over three decades in the contact center world, climbing from the front lines to the C-suite. That’s right — we’re joined by Miranda Collard, global chief client officer at Teleperformance, or <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.tp.com/en-us/" target="_blank" title="TP">TP</a> as you’ll hear us say. Miranda’s been through it all — from wearing a headset as one of the company’s first agents to shaping <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/the-benefits-of-combining-customer-journey-mapping-with-ai/" target="_blank" title="AI-powered customer journeys">AI-powered customer journeys</a> for some of the biggest brands on the planet. We’ve pulled together five big takeaways from our conversation — insights that every CX and contact center leader should hear.(Editor's note: Check our <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/still-taking-calls-after-30-years-tps-miranda-collard-on-the-human-side-of-cx/" target="_blank" title="Miranda Collard's full interview on CMSWire TV">Miranda Collard's full interview on CMSWire TV</a>).<h2>A Frontline-to-C-Suite Journey that Shapes Leadership</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;When you talk to someone who has been with the same organization for over 30 years, you expect wisdom — but Miranda brings something even more valuable: perspective. She’s lived every rung of the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/agentic-ai-in-contact-centers-the-next-big-shift-in-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="contact center">contact center</a> ladder, and it influences how she leads today.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;I definitely listen to a lot of [calls], but definitely from a partnership perspective, obviously connecting all of the dots and the capabilities and hopefully making dreams come true as C-Suite's develop their objectives over time and through the years and what they need and how they need to adopt their <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/customer-journey-mapping-a-how-to-guide/" target="_blank" title="customer journey">customer journey</a>. I would say being a frontline agent, a lot of us come into this business, you know, as a college job, which is what it was going to be for me. And I fell in love with what we did as a company and organization and the people and, you know, the clients. And so was able to make a career out of it.But, you know, I actually grew up in the operation. So I spent 22, I want to say 22 years running contact centers, the COO of our US region before I went over to the client side. So that really set me up for how everything works mechanically, right? Like all the wheels and the cogs really set up for me to be extremely helpful from a partnership perspective and how we can do better, greater things together.Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;That’s a blueprint for empathy in leadership — starting at the front lines and carrying that operational knowledge into boardroom strategy. For CX leaders, this is a reminder: you can’t optimize what you’ve never lived.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-a-contact-center-omnichannel-customer-experience-redefined/" target="_blank" title="What Is a Contact Center? Omnichannel Customer Experience Redefined">What Is a Contact Center? Omnichannel Customer Experience Redefined</a><h2>AI’s Real Impact is Behind the Scenes</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;AI in the contact center gets a lot of attention for flashy customer-facing applications, but Miranda says the real magic is often invisible — and that’s where the biggest gains happen.
Miranda Collard: I think now we're starting to see, you know, that we're past the ideation phase in really mapping the generative and AI tools and technologies. People, I think, have a misconception that this is kind of on a front end experience level versus what you can really do from a backend perspective, which creates those efficiency gains. Because when knowledge is easier for you to find and provide resolution, you're going to have <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-customer-satisfaction-score-csat/" target="_blank" title="customer satisfaction">customer satisfaction</a> gains. You're going to improve retention. When you have technology and tools that will help you drive even sales solutions, these tools will help you understand what the customer needs most and when. So when you're showing up ready to deliver on those things, you start to see all of those elements of key performance indicators improve. But I think one of the unspoken things that really improve in all of these interactions is the retention of your people. When they're successful, and you're helping make them more successful, they continue to stay and grow and, you know, hopefully become the next global chief client officer.
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;This flips the AI conversation on its head — it’s not just about faster <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/what-data-tells-us-about-the-future-of-chatbots-in-cx/" target="_blank" title="chatbots">chatbots</a>, it’s about arming your people to be more effective. That’s where satisfaction scores and retention rates start to climb.<h2>Emotional Intelligence is a CX Power Tool</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;&nbsp;The best agents don’t just solve problems — they connect with people. Miranda’s approach to developing emotional intelligence (EQ) in contact centers is a masterclass.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;It's one of the hardest jobs that you'll ever do. It's also one of the most rewarding in development of your skills, right? In your personal skills and your soft skills and your emotional intelligence and all of those things. I've been a firm believer my entire career that culture is everything. Obviously 31 years at TP, I learned a lot of that through the culture and value system of TP. And really at the heart of that is servant leadership, right? We're here to serve, we're here to serve our employees, we're here to serve our customers. And as part of that, we have always been maniacal about how we show up for our employees. And now in this instance, how we show up from an emotional intelligence perspective. Just as pervasive as it is from an adoption of AI and technology, it's equally as such on how we're enabling the frontline to further those <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/emotional-intelligence-in-customer-service-the-key-differentiator/" target="_blank" title="emotional intelligence skills">emotional intelligence skills</a>. Because you're going to have to show up in a different way, which means we need to make sure that at the same time and in parallel, that we're preparing the frontline, the management, the leadership with our emotional intelligence program. Which by the way has been, you know, active now — I believe we're up to 60 to 80,000 people that have gone through this training program.Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;AI might make interactions faster, but EQ makes them matter. Scaling emotional intelligence isn’t a “nice-to-have” — it’s a CX differentiator.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/the-growing-importance-of-emotional-intelligence-in-marketing/" target="_blank" title="The Growing Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Marketing">The Growing Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Marketing</a><h2>Empowering Agents Through Insight Gathering</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;The front line isn’t just where problems get solved — it’s where some of the best ideas live. Miranda has built systems to bring those ideas forward.
Miranda Collard: If you're looking for an answer, all you have to do is walk into your contact center and have a conversation. You'll find an answer on product. You'll find an answer on friction. You'll find an answer on what needs to change, what's happening by market. I mean, there is expert information that they don't even realize they have in their brains. And all you have to do is kind of suck it out and collate it and make sure the right people understand it. We have processes for that, obviously, at TP for years and years to bring forward all of that information. But what's even more crucial right now — and as a part of kind of mirroring the EQ and the AI perspective for us — is that in our business, there is a standard quality practice... but now you're able to do that every day with AI. You don't need somebody sitting here checking the boxes, but what you can do now is start capturing those insights and information that's coming in. And if you can just nurture that and bring it forward and do something with even 10% of it, you are going to make such a significant difference.
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;That’s the essence of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/frontline-empowerment-a-customer-experience-revolution/" target="_blank" title="agent empowerment">agent empowerment</a> — not just scoring them on performance, but listening to them as innovators.<h2>Turning Insights into Action in 2025</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Collecting data is easy. Acting on it — and making it matter for both customers and agents — is the next frontier.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;I think the insight to action has always been a top priority. I think the action is the difference, right? Because I think we're now more enabled than ever to actually put real activity in place that's going to improve that enablement. Whereas before, the technology wasn't necessarily as advanced or it would be an expensive and a big undertaking. It's not uncommon for a frontline person to have to log into up to 16 systems. It's not uncommon to sit in training for six to 16 weeks. But that action, I think, is the most exciting part of what's going to happen in 2025. And really, finally, for those of us that have been doing this for so long, finally, we're going to be able to take that enablement and that frontline experience to the next level. If we could just do a fraction of what we've wanted to do in technology on that front over the coming years, it will improve experience globally across the board. Every single, every single <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-customer-experience-cx-a-comprehensive-guide/" target="_blank" title="customer experience">customer experience</a> will improve just with that activity.<h2>Insight Without Action in the Contact Center? Just Noise</h2> Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Insight without action is just noise. The organizations that act — even incrementally — will set the pace for the industry. That’s a wrap on this conversation with Miranda Collard — a leader who not only talks the talk but has walked every step of the CX journey herself. From headset to C-suite, her perspective bridges technology, empathy and action. Whether you’re running a global contact center or leading a small CX team, there’s a clear through-line here: empower your people, leverage technology to remove friction, and never lose sight of the human connection. That’s how you build experiences that last.

This CX Decoded episode brings together insights from two of CMSWire’s most important annual research studies: the 2025 State of the CMO Report and the 2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report.

Season 4, EPISODE 17

May 27, 2025

This CX Decoded episode brings together insights from two of CMSWire’s most important annual research studies: the 2025 State of the CMO Report and the 2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report. Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro hosts CMSWire VP of Research Sarah Kimmel for a deep-dive into the most urgent trends shaping marketing and CX leadership. From skill gaps to AI adoption, CMS strategies to personalization progress, this conversation is packed with guidance for staying relevant—and resilient—in 2025.

Top 2025 Moves for CMOs and CX Leaders

<h3>The Gist</h3>
<ul>
 <li>Modern CMOs need hybrid skills. Creative flair alone won’t cut it—CMOs must also master data and tech to remain competitive.</li>
 <li>Budgets are bouncing back—but cautiously. Marketing optimism is up, but leaders must stay flexible as market volatility looms.</li>
 <li>ROI pressure is rising. Demonstrating return on investment is now a top priority—and a top struggle—for marketing leaders.</li>
 <li>GenAI is widespread, but governance lags. Most marketers are experimenting with AI tools, often without formal strategy or oversight.</li>
 <li>DX tools are finally delivering results. After years of frustration, digital experience leaders report meaningful improvements across stacks.</li>
 <li>Personalization is accelerating. Better data and tech are finally pushing this long-promised strategy forward.</li>
 <li>Customer behavior keeps shifting. Successful CX now hinges on the ability to adapt, not just predict.</li>
 <li>CMS platforms are surging again. AI integration is driving a renaissance in content management investments.</li>
 <li>AI is the new CX foundation. More leaders see AI as essential infrastructure—not just a tool—for digital experience.</li></ul>

<h2>The 2025 CMO and DCX Playbooks: What CMOs and CX Leaders Need to Know Now</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Welcome back to CX Decoded, the podcast where we unpack the most critical trends shaping the future of customer experience and digital marketing. I’m your host, Dom Nicastro, Editor-in-Chief at CMSWire.

Today’s episode is a special one. We’re featuring insights from not one but two groundbreaking CMSWire reports: the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www2.cmswire.com/cp-smg-cmo-report-cx.html" target="_blank" title="2025 State of the CMO Report">2025 State of the CMO Report</a> and the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www2.cmswire.com/cp-smg-dcx-report-cx.html" target="_blank" title="2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report">2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report</a>. Our colleague Sarah Kimmel, vice president of research at CMSWire, joined us on CMSWire TV to unpack the findings—and they are must-hear takeaways for every marketing and CX leader out there.

Let’s dive into the most important lessons from these landmark reports.

<h2>CMOs Must Master Three Skill Sets to Stay Competitive</h2>

Dom Nicastro: We kick off with a reality check for marketing leaders. Creative storytelling is still critical—but it’s no longer enough. CMOs need fluency in both data and technology to stay competitive in 2025.

Sarah Kimmel: Right. So the skills that are critical for marketing leaders now are kind of in three distinct buckets. They're related to each other, but they are distinct. The first is skills related to data aggregation, integration and analysis. The second is skills related to advanced marketing technologies like DXP, CMS or gen AI. And the third is creative thinking or storytelling—your core marketing competencies.

Data is critical for ROI, which is more necessary than ever. Marketers are now being held more accountable for spend. Data hygiene and savvy are essential to use marketing tech for personalization or AI. Without clean, integrated data, you won’t get far.

Second, there’s the technology itself. 98% of marketing leaders agreed that executing strategy now requires more advanced tech skills, and 63% strongly agreed. These skills are needed not only to get value from martech like <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/privacy-first-personalization-in-marketing-wins-customer-trust/" target="_blank" title="personalization">personalization</a> and omnichannel delivery, but also for things like prompting gen AI, LLM literacy, and workflow automation.

Dom Nicastro: Modern CMOs are being asked to span three disciplines that used to be separate jobs. You need to be a technologist, a data analyst, and a creative leader—all at once. The takeaway? Build teams that complement your gaps and invest in your own cross-training.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/examining-the-state-of-digital-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="Examining the State of Digital Customer Experience">Examining the State of Digital Customer Experience</a>

<h2>Budget Optimism Returns, but Volatility Lurks</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Marketing leaders have been navigating tight budgets for years. But according to our latest research, they finally saw some daylight in late 2024—though the outlook remains uncertain.

Sarah Kimmel: Two-thirds of marketing leaders say their budgets increased over the last year. Though 44% said it was a slight increase, 84% expect their budgets to increase again in 2025—and a third expect a significant boost. But here’s the caveat: that optimism was captured mostly in December and January. Since then, we’ve seen instability that might shift those expectations. Early-year optimism may not survive ongoing economic volatility, supply chain disruptions, or sudden shifts in customer behavior.

Dom Nicastro: Optimism is great—but agility is better. If you're a CMO banking on a budget bump, make sure you're prepared to pivot if macro conditions shift. This year, your budget strategy needs a backup plan.

<h2>ROI Is the CMO's Top Challenge—And Opportunity</h2>

Dom Nicastro: ROI has always been a sticking point, but now it’s an imperative. CMOs are under immense pressure to justify every dollar—and not just to prove value, but to keep their seat at the table.

Sarah Kimmel: There’s growing pressure for marketing to prove ROI, and it’s hard. More than one in three marketing leaders cite ROI measurement as their top challenge in improving customer experience. 95% say their team is under pressure to show return on marketing spend. But many still don’t have the right data, organization, or measurement skills to get there. So ROI reporting remains a big work-in-progress.

Dom Nicastro: We’re entering an era where intuition takes a backseat to attribution. If you can't measure the impact of your campaigns, someone else will decide your fate. The time to fix your ROI reporting is now—not next quarter.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-inside-the-2025-state-of-the-cmo/" target="_blank" title="CMO Circle: Inside the 2025 State of the CMO">CMO Circle: Inside the 2025 State of the CMO</a>

<h2>Generative AI Is Fast-Tracked, But Still Immature</h2>

Dom Nicastro: AI use in marketing is exploding—but strategy and governance haven’t caught up. For now, it’s full speed ahead, with one hand still reaching for the seatbelt.

Sarah Kimmel: Generative AI has one of the fastest adoption cycles we’ve ever seen. 68% of marketers used it in the past year, and another 23% plan to. But nearly one in three still have no formal guidelines or policies in place. The top use case is content generation. Strategic uses—like workflow automation and personalization—are still behind.

Dom Nicastro: This is a Wild West moment for <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/the-unforeseen-consequences-of-relying-on-ai-in-marketing-strategies/" target="_blank" title="AI in marketing">AI in marketing</a>. It’s not about whether you use it—it’s about how responsibly and strategically you deploy it. Without governance, you’re just gambling with a shiny tool.
<h3>Summary of Key Insights from the 2025 CMO and DCX Playbooks</h3>
This table breaks down the top findings and takeaways from CMSWire's 2025 State of the CMO and State of DCX reports as discussed on CX Decoded.

<table class="bordered">
 <thead>
 <tr>
 <th>Theme</th>
 <th>Key Insight</th>
 <th>Implication</th>
 </tr>
 </thead>
 <tbody>
 <tr>
 <td>CMO skill sets</td>
 <td>CMOs must now master data, technology, and creative strategy to compete.</td>
 <td>Modern marketing leaders need cross-disciplinary fluency or team augmentation.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Marketing budgets</td>
 <td>Budgets are rebounding, with 84% expecting increases in 2025.</td>
 <td>Leaders should remain agile as optimism could be tempered by macroeconomic shifts.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>ROI reporting</td>
 <td>ROI is the #1 challenge for CMOs—yet most teams lack the tools or skills to track it.</td>
 <td>Fixing ROI measurement is urgent to maintain credibility and influence in the C-suite.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Generative AI</td>
 <td>68% of marketers have used GenAI, but most lack governance frameworks.</td>
 <td>AI use must shift from experimentation to strategic deployment with oversight.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Digital experience tools</td>
 <td>DX leaders finally report meaningful improvements in stack effectiveness.</td>
 <td>Now is the time to innovate further atop more integrated, stable foundations.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Personalization</td>
 <td>Momentum is finally building thanks to better data and behavioral insights.</td>
 <td>Organizations must align strategy, tech, and insight to scale personalization.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Customer behavior</td>
 <td>Rapidly shifting behaviors are outpacing traditional journey modeling.</td>
 <td>Adaptability—not prediction—is the new CX edge.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>CMS resurgence</td>
 <td>82% plan CMS investment; many shifting to AI-integrated or composable platforms.</td>
 <td>CMS is evolving from publishing to experience orchestration infrastructure.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>AI as CX foundation</td>
 <td>AI is now the top DCX investment; 45% say GenAI supports half or more of their work.</td>
 <td>AI is becoming the new operating system for modern experience delivery.</td>
 </tr>
 </tbody>
</table>


<h2>DX Teams Are Finally Seeing their Tech Pay off</h2>

Dom Nicastro: After years of complaints about fragmented stacks and underperforming tools, DX leaders are finally seeing traction—and results.

Sarah Kimmel: In 2019, only 9% of organizations said their DCX tools worked well. Half said they were bad and needed major work. It’s taken years, but we’re now seeing clear signs of improvement. Teams feel their stacks are more effective and better integrated—though there are still challenges with overlap, redundancy, and integration.

Dom Nicastro: It took half a decade, but the investment is finally paying off. DX leaders—take this as a green light to go deeper. If the foundation is solid, now’s the time to innovate on top of it.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/personalization-up-confusion-down-not-so-fast-say-cx-leaders/" target="_blank" title="Personalization Up, Confusion Down? Not So Fast, Say CX Leaders">Personalization Up, Confusion Down? Not So Fast, Say CX Leaders</a>

<h2>Personalization Is Finally Moving</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Personalization has been a slow burn. But the fuse has finally caught—and it’s being driven by better tools and deeper behavioral insight.

Sarah Kimmel: Personalization has seen slow, incremental improvement over the last few years. But now we’re seeing real traction. It hinges on two things: understanding your customers’ behavior and having the tech to act on it. Both areas are improving. As tools and behavioral insight mature, personalization is finally gaining momentum.

Dom Nicastro: You can’t fake personalization. You either know your customers or you don’t. What we’re seeing now is the result of hard work aligning data, tech, and strategy—and it’s about time.

<h2>Customer Behavior Is a Moving Target</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Even with better tools and data, customer behavior is still the wild card. In 2025, it’s not about <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/mastering-customer-journey-management-from-silos-to-seamless-cx/" target="_blank" title="mastering the journey">mastering the journey</a>—it’s about mastering the adaptation.

Sarah Kimmel: Customer behavior is evolving so rapidly that it’s hard to model. Organizations cite “behavior changing too quickly” as the top roadblock to understanding customers. Preferences have shifted post-pandemic and continue to shift. Traditional journey models don’t hold up anymore—there’s too much variation. Many orgs also lack the in-house expertise to keep up, and budget constraints only make it harder.

Dom Nicastro: If you're still building CX strategies off last year’s behavior patterns, you're behind. The new competitive edge is responsiveness—reading change and reacting in real time.

<h2>CMS Investment Is Back—and Bigger than Expected</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Remember when people said CMS was dead? Turns out it’s having a renaissance. And AI is fueling the demand.

Sarah Kimmel: This was one of the most surprising findings. 82% of organizations plan to invest in CMS. 30% are building their own, signaling a move to composable architecture. Another 29% are buying new platforms, and 23% are upgrading. The motivation? Integrating AI and machine learning into their experience stacks.

Dom Nicastro: This is about more than content. It’s about experience infrastructure. Your CMS isn’t just a publishing tool anymore—it’s your engine for personalization, automation, and AI-readiness.

<h2>AI Is the Top Investment for DCX Leaders</h2>

Dom Nicastro: We’ll end where a lot of teams are beginning—AI as the foundation of modern customer experience.

Sarah Kimmel: AI and machine learning are now the #1 investment priority for DCX teams—something we’ve never seen before. 45% of CX and marketing leaders say generative AI supports at least half of their work. It’s become the essential glue holding together teams facing tighter budgets and higher demands.

Dom Nicastro: AI isn’t just a tool anymore—it’s the new operating system. DCX teams that figure out how to integrate AI strategically are going to outpace the rest. Fast.

Too many marketers are chasing likes over results.

Season 4, EPISODE 16

Mar 31, 2025

Too many marketers are chasing likes over results. Jim Lecinski, clinical professor of Marketing at Northwestern University and former Google executive, says it’s time to reframe the CMO role—from brand builder to growth driver.
In this episode, he breaks down how to stay customer-obsessed, navigate AI-driven search and get ready for Gen Alpha before they catch you off guard.

CMO Real Talk: Growth, AI and What Gen Alpha Really Wants

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Today, we’ve got a special episode for CMOs and marketing leaders looking to sharpen their strategies for the rest of 2025. We’re pulling together five key takeaways from a fascinating conversation my colleague Michelle Hawley, Editor at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.vktr.com/" target="_blank" title="VKTR.com">VKTR.com</a>, had with Jim Lecinski on the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-the-new-rules-of-marketing/" target="_blank" title="new rules of marketing for 2025">new rules of marketing for 2025</a>.Now, if you don’t know Jim, here’s a quick rundown: He’s a Clinical Professor of Marketing at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.northwestern.edu/" target="_blank" title="Northwestern University">Northwestern University</a>, spent 12 years at Google and wrote <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://books.google.com/books/about/Winning_the_Zero_Moment_of_Truth.html?id=JU4J58bum24C" target="_blank" title="Winning the Zero Moment of Truth">Winning the Zero Moment of Truth</a>. He’s also the author of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Canvas-Five-Stage-Implementing-Intelligence/dp/150361316X" target="_blank" title="The AI Marketing Canvas">The AI Marketing Canvas</a>. With over 30 years in marketing, Jim’s a powerhouse of insights.
So today, we’re going to break down five essential takeaways from his interview—ideas that every <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/marketing-leadership-is-chief-marketing-officer-the-right-title/" target="_blank" title="chief marketing officer">chief marketing officer</a> should be thinking about as they navigate the challenging marketing landscape of 2025.
Let’s jump right in.
<h2>Marketing Must Be a Growth Engine – Not Just a Branding Play</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Let’s start with the biggest priority for any marketing leader—growth. Jim points out that marketers can sometimes lose focus, getting too wrapped up in engagement metrics instead of real business outcomes like revenue, profit, and market share. Let’s hear how he puts it.
Jim Lecinski: Yeah, so I'm glad that you started with growth. Marketing really needs to be a growth engine and drive revenue, profit and share. I think sometimes marketers get a little tripped up and confuse the means and the ends like likes, friends, fans, download, engagement. Those are good things, but those are means to the end of growth. You know, growth is all about the users, right? The customers, the consumers, whether you're in B2B or B2C. And so staying on top of consumer trends really you being close to your customers is a critical function of marketing. Marketers, truly believe marketing should be the closest group within the firm to the customer and be able to bring the voice of the customer back into manufacturing, R&amp;D, sales team, etc., and represent the customer's interest internally.
Dom Nicastro: So, the big takeaway here? CMOs need to rethink their role—they’re not just brand builders, they should be the customer’s loudest voice inside the company. Every marketing decision should tie back to business growth, and engagement alone won’t cut it.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/setting-yourself-up-for-success-as-a-chief-marketing-officer/" target="_blank" title="Setting Yourself Up for Success as a Chief Marketing Officer">Setting Yourself Up for Success as a Chief Marketing Officer</a>
<h2>The 70/20/10 Rule – Balancing Short-Term Wins with Long-Term Strategy</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Now, let’s talk about one of the biggest balancing acts every CMO faces—immediate business needs vs. long-term innovation. Jim breaks this down with the 70/20/10 model—a framework for allocating marketing focus and resources.
Jim Lecinski: So we can't take credit for the base level demand. We only can take credit for the incremental lift relative to the costs of a sales marketing and customer service, fully loaded costs. So that's kind of our ultimate goal. Now, in order to drive that, as you point out, there are near term targets. Many companies have daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly targets, as well as annual targets and three to five year plans. And so, you we need to typically balance the short term versus the long term. We'll call it the core versus the adjacent versus the moonshots with a 70/20/10 model whereby 70% of your focus, your resources, your budget, your energy is focused on kind of delivering the immediacy of the business here and now. Whereas 20 % are thinking about adjacent things, adjacent markets, adjacent customers, adjacent products and services. And 10% are some sort of full diversification, kind of 10x moonshots that make sure that, you know, we're future-proofing ourselves and the business as the landscape will be rapidly changing.
Dom Nicastro: This is gold for CMOs. If you’re spending 100% of your time on today’s business, you’re missing out on future growth opportunities. But if you’re too future-focused, you might not survive long enough to see that innovation pay off. Balance is key.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/preparing-cmos-for-the-next-decade-of-marketing-leadership/" target="_blank" title="Preparing CMOs for the Next Decade of Marketing Leadership">Preparing CMOs for the Next Decade of Marketing Leadership</a>
<h2>AI-Driven Omnichannel Marketing is the Future</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Let’s move into one of the most complex challenges for marketers today—<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/seamless-omnichannel-strategy-best-practices-for-customer-engagement/" target="_blank" title="omnichannel marketing">omnichannel marketing</a>. Jim explains how AI is revolutionizing personalization and making customer interactions seamless across all channels.
Jim Lecinski:&nbsp;Yeah, so omnichannel, obviously a hot topic. And omnichannel has sort of two flavors or two meanings. You referenced one of them, which is sort of the omnichannel communication. And is it an email channel versus a text channel versus a web channel versus an offline channel? And the other meaning that marketers think a lot about when it comes to omnichannel is omnichannel distribution and sales. Are we available online? Are we available in store?
Dom Nicastro: Jim highlights that <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/creating-real-connections-ais-role-in-modern-omnichannel-strategy/" target="_blank" title="modern omnichannel marketing">modern omnichannel marketing</a> isn’t just about being present on multiple channels—it’s about orchestrating them intelligently with AI. If your marketing messages and customer journey aren’t aligned, you’re going to lose them to brands that are getting it right.
<h2>Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) Will Transform Search</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Alright, CMOs, take note—SEO as you know it is changing. With AI-powered search engines like Google SGE, Bing AI and Perplexity, a new era is here: Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). Jim breaks it down.
Jim Lecinski:&nbsp;The good news is some of the same things, still to be determined, this is a work in progress. But it looks like many of the same things that we had learned as an industry in order to be good at SEO and SEM will also carry over into GEO or GEM. Yet at the same time, there appears to be some new things that we'll all need to know how to do. These engines seem to work somewhat like the human brain. They look to conserve energy and not work too hard.
Dom Nicastro: This is critical for marketers—if you don’t adjust your strategy, AI-powered search engines won’t surface your brand. The future is question-based content, natural language responses, and AI-friendly formatting.
<h2>Gen Alpha is Coming—And They’re Different</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Let’s wrap up with a look ahead. Gen Alpha—the first generation to grow up entirely in the digital era—is reaching purchasing power. Jim explains what makes them unique.
Jim Lecinski: Yeah, I think 2025 would be a good homework assignment, a good year for marketers to really start to understand who is Gen Alpha, what they're all about, what makes them tick. As you said, think about Gen X, then Gen Y, then Gen Z, and many brands starting to think about how do I appeal to Gen Z, how do I appeal to millennials.
Very quietly, think it's snuck up on many of us that <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-the-new-rules-of-marketing/" target="_blank" title="Gen Alpha">Gen Alpha</a> is the oldest of them will be turning 16 in 2025. Right. So if you think about like 2010 beyond so, you know, I mean, even if you're not marketing to tweens or teens, I mean, they're reach starting to reach, you know, college age, spending power, buying power, independent decision making. And so to really start to understand what makes these folks tick, I think is super important.
Yeah, you put your finger on it. You know, if you're 12 and you spent three, four years of your life during the global pandemic in lockdown, maybe remote schooling, remote friending, those kinds of things, a third of your life was experienced that way. I mean, for many of us, was a challenging couple of years, but it was just that, a couple of years and a longer life well lived. But for these folks, it's sort of a early defining feature of their lives.
And so what does that mean? That means that they're comfortable with technology, of course, they're not the first generation to do so, but they are comfortable making human connections through technology, right? Because out of necessity, lack of alternative, many of them said, well, this is the only way I can connect with my friends. So they're actually building human connections through technology, through chats, through gaming.
Dom Nicastro: This is your early warning—Gen Alpha will rewrite the marketing rulebook. CMOs need to adapt now or risk being irrelevant when this generation becomes the dominant consumer group.
Big thanks to Jim Lecinski and Michelle Hawley for this insightful conversation. If you liked this episode, subscribe to CX Decoded. Until next time—stay customer-focused and keep innovating!

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