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Customer Experience Decoded is CMSWire's semi-monthly podcast designed to deliver insights from leaders driving the evolution of customer experience, with an emphasis on digital touch points, customer journeys, respectful data management and voice of the customer.

Each episode is designed to help you better understand how industry leaders are managing customer experience and the value these practices can bring to your customers' and employee's daily lives.

In this episode of CX Decoded, Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro sits down with Miranda Collard, Global Chief Client Officer at TP, to explore her remarkable journey from headset-wearing agent to C-suite leader.

Season 4, EPISODE 18

Aug 18, 2025

In this episode of CX Decoded, Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro sits down with Miranda Collard, Global Chief Client Officer at TP, to explore her remarkable journey from headset-wearing agent to C-suite leader. With over 30 years in the contact center industry, Collard shares hard-earned insights on how frontline experience shapes leadership, why AI’s real impact often happens behind the scenes, and how emotional intelligence can be scaled as a CX differentiator. Listeners will also hear how empowering agents and turning insights into action can transform customer journeys in 2025 and beyond. Whether you lead a global CX organization or a small team, this conversation offers practical strategies for blending technology, empathy and execution to deliver experiences that truly last.

From Headset to C-Suite: Miranda Collard on CX Leadership

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Hey everyone, Dom Nicastro here, editor-in-chief of CMSWire.com, back with another episode of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/podcasts/cx-decoded/" target="_blank" title="CX Decoded">CX Decoded</a>. Today we’re diving deep with someone who has spent over three decades in the contact center world, climbing from the front lines to the C-suite. That’s right — we’re joined by Miranda Collard, global chief client officer at Teleperformance, or <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.tp.com/en-us/" target="_blank" title="TP">TP</a> as you’ll hear us say. Miranda’s been through it all — from wearing a headset as one of the company’s first agents to shaping <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/the-benefits-of-combining-customer-journey-mapping-with-ai/" target="_blank" title="AI-powered customer journeys">AI-powered customer journeys</a> for some of the biggest brands on the planet. We’ve pulled together five big takeaways from our conversation — insights that every CX and contact center leader should hear.(Editor's note: Check our <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/still-taking-calls-after-30-years-tps-miranda-collard-on-the-human-side-of-cx/" target="_blank" title="Miranda Collard's full interview on CMSWire TV">Miranda Collard's full interview on CMSWire TV</a>).<h2>A Frontline-to-C-Suite Journey that Shapes Leadership</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;When you talk to someone who has been with the same organization for over 30 years, you expect wisdom — but Miranda brings something even more valuable: perspective. She’s lived every rung of the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/agentic-ai-in-contact-centers-the-next-big-shift-in-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="contact center">contact center</a> ladder, and it influences how she leads today.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;I definitely listen to a lot of [calls], but definitely from a partnership perspective, obviously connecting all of the dots and the capabilities and hopefully making dreams come true as C-Suite's develop their objectives over time and through the years and what they need and how they need to adopt their <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/customer-journey-mapping-a-how-to-guide/" target="_blank" title="customer journey">customer journey</a>. I would say being a frontline agent, a lot of us come into this business, you know, as a college job, which is what it was going to be for me. And I fell in love with what we did as a company and organization and the people and, you know, the clients. And so was able to make a career out of it.But, you know, I actually grew up in the operation. So I spent 22, I want to say 22 years running contact centers, the COO of our US region before I went over to the client side. So that really set me up for how everything works mechanically, right? Like all the wheels and the cogs really set up for me to be extremely helpful from a partnership perspective and how we can do better, greater things together.Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;That’s a blueprint for empathy in leadership — starting at the front lines and carrying that operational knowledge into boardroom strategy. For CX leaders, this is a reminder: you can’t optimize what you’ve never lived.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-a-contact-center-omnichannel-customer-experience-redefined/" target="_blank" title="What Is a Contact Center? Omnichannel Customer Experience Redefined">What Is a Contact Center? Omnichannel Customer Experience Redefined</a><h2>AI’s Real Impact is Behind the Scenes</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;AI in the contact center gets a lot of attention for flashy customer-facing applications, but Miranda says the real magic is often invisible — and that’s where the biggest gains happen.
Miranda Collard: I think now we're starting to see, you know, that we're past the ideation phase in really mapping the generative and AI tools and technologies. People, I think, have a misconception that this is kind of on a front end experience level versus what you can really do from a backend perspective, which creates those efficiency gains. Because when knowledge is easier for you to find and provide resolution, you're going to have <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-customer-satisfaction-score-csat/" target="_blank" title="customer satisfaction">customer satisfaction</a> gains. You're going to improve retention. When you have technology and tools that will help you drive even sales solutions, these tools will help you understand what the customer needs most and when. So when you're showing up ready to deliver on those things, you start to see all of those elements of key performance indicators improve. But I think one of the unspoken things that really improve in all of these interactions is the retention of your people. When they're successful, and you're helping make them more successful, they continue to stay and grow and, you know, hopefully become the next global chief client officer.
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;This flips the AI conversation on its head — it’s not just about faster <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/what-data-tells-us-about-the-future-of-chatbots-in-cx/" target="_blank" title="chatbots">chatbots</a>, it’s about arming your people to be more effective. That’s where satisfaction scores and retention rates start to climb.<h2>Emotional Intelligence is a CX Power Tool</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;&nbsp;The best agents don’t just solve problems — they connect with people. Miranda’s approach to developing emotional intelligence (EQ) in contact centers is a masterclass.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;It's one of the hardest jobs that you'll ever do. It's also one of the most rewarding in development of your skills, right? In your personal skills and your soft skills and your emotional intelligence and all of those things. I've been a firm believer my entire career that culture is everything. Obviously 31 years at TP, I learned a lot of that through the culture and value system of TP. And really at the heart of that is servant leadership, right? We're here to serve, we're here to serve our employees, we're here to serve our customers. And as part of that, we have always been maniacal about how we show up for our employees. And now in this instance, how we show up from an emotional intelligence perspective. Just as pervasive as it is from an adoption of AI and technology, it's equally as such on how we're enabling the frontline to further those <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/emotional-intelligence-in-customer-service-the-key-differentiator/" target="_blank" title="emotional intelligence skills">emotional intelligence skills</a>. Because you're going to have to show up in a different way, which means we need to make sure that at the same time and in parallel, that we're preparing the frontline, the management, the leadership with our emotional intelligence program. Which by the way has been, you know, active now — I believe we're up to 60 to 80,000 people that have gone through this training program.Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;AI might make interactions faster, but EQ makes them matter. Scaling emotional intelligence isn’t a “nice-to-have” — it’s a CX differentiator.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/the-growing-importance-of-emotional-intelligence-in-marketing/" target="_blank" title="The Growing Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Marketing">The Growing Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Marketing</a><h2>Empowering Agents Through Insight Gathering</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;The front line isn’t just where problems get solved — it’s where some of the best ideas live. Miranda has built systems to bring those ideas forward.
Miranda Collard: If you're looking for an answer, all you have to do is walk into your contact center and have a conversation. You'll find an answer on product. You'll find an answer on friction. You'll find an answer on what needs to change, what's happening by market. I mean, there is expert information that they don't even realize they have in their brains. And all you have to do is kind of suck it out and collate it and make sure the right people understand it. We have processes for that, obviously, at TP for years and years to bring forward all of that information. But what's even more crucial right now — and as a part of kind of mirroring the EQ and the AI perspective for us — is that in our business, there is a standard quality practice... but now you're able to do that every day with AI. You don't need somebody sitting here checking the boxes, but what you can do now is start capturing those insights and information that's coming in. And if you can just nurture that and bring it forward and do something with even 10% of it, you are going to make such a significant difference.
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;That’s the essence of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/frontline-empowerment-a-customer-experience-revolution/" target="_blank" title="agent empowerment">agent empowerment</a> — not just scoring them on performance, but listening to them as innovators.<h2>Turning Insights into Action in 2025</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Collecting data is easy. Acting on it — and making it matter for both customers and agents — is the next frontier.
Miranda Collard:&nbsp;I think the insight to action has always been a top priority. I think the action is the difference, right? Because I think we're now more enabled than ever to actually put real activity in place that's going to improve that enablement. Whereas before, the technology wasn't necessarily as advanced or it would be an expensive and a big undertaking. It's not uncommon for a frontline person to have to log into up to 16 systems. It's not uncommon to sit in training for six to 16 weeks. But that action, I think, is the most exciting part of what's going to happen in 2025. And really, finally, for those of us that have been doing this for so long, finally, we're going to be able to take that enablement and that frontline experience to the next level. If we could just do a fraction of what we've wanted to do in technology on that front over the coming years, it will improve experience globally across the board. Every single, every single <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/what-is-customer-experience-cx-a-comprehensive-guide/" target="_blank" title="customer experience">customer experience</a> will improve just with that activity.<h2>Insight Without Action in the Contact Center? Just Noise</h2> Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Insight without action is just noise. The organizations that act — even incrementally — will set the pace for the industry. That’s a wrap on this conversation with Miranda Collard — a leader who not only talks the talk but has walked every step of the CX journey herself. From headset to C-suite, her perspective bridges technology, empathy and action. Whether you’re running a global contact center or leading a small CX team, there’s a clear through-line here: empower your people, leverage technology to remove friction, and never lose sight of the human connection. That’s how you build experiences that last.

This CX Decoded episode brings together insights from two of CMSWire’s most important annual research studies: the 2025 State of the CMO Report and the 2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report.

Season 4, EPISODE 17

May 27, 2025

This CX Decoded episode brings together insights from two of CMSWire’s most important annual research studies: the 2025 State of the CMO Report and the 2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report. Editor-in-Chief Dom Nicastro hosts CMSWire VP of Research Sarah Kimmel for a deep-dive into the most urgent trends shaping marketing and CX leadership. From skill gaps to AI adoption, CMS strategies to personalization progress, this conversation is packed with guidance for staying relevant—and resilient—in 2025.

Top 2025 Moves for CMOs and CX Leaders

<h3>The Gist</h3>
<ul>
 <li>Modern CMOs need hybrid skills. Creative flair alone won’t cut it—CMOs must also master data and tech to remain competitive.</li>
 <li>Budgets are bouncing back—but cautiously. Marketing optimism is up, but leaders must stay flexible as market volatility looms.</li>
 <li>ROI pressure is rising. Demonstrating return on investment is now a top priority—and a top struggle—for marketing leaders.</li>
 <li>GenAI is widespread, but governance lags. Most marketers are experimenting with AI tools, often without formal strategy or oversight.</li>
 <li>DX tools are finally delivering results. After years of frustration, digital experience leaders report meaningful improvements across stacks.</li>
 <li>Personalization is accelerating. Better data and tech are finally pushing this long-promised strategy forward.</li>
 <li>Customer behavior keeps shifting. Successful CX now hinges on the ability to adapt, not just predict.</li>
 <li>CMS platforms are surging again. AI integration is driving a renaissance in content management investments.</li>
 <li>AI is the new CX foundation. More leaders see AI as essential infrastructure—not just a tool—for digital experience.</li></ul>

<h2>The 2025 CMO and DCX Playbooks: What CMOs and CX Leaders Need to Know Now</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Welcome back to CX Decoded, the podcast where we unpack the most critical trends shaping the future of customer experience and digital marketing. I’m your host, Dom Nicastro, Editor-in-Chief at CMSWire.

Today’s episode is a special one. We’re featuring insights from not one but two groundbreaking CMSWire reports: the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www2.cmswire.com/cp-smg-cmo-report-cx.html" target="_blank" title="2025 State of the CMO Report">2025 State of the CMO Report</a> and the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www2.cmswire.com/cp-smg-dcx-report-cx.html" target="_blank" title="2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report">2025 State of Digital Customer Experience Report</a>. Our colleague Sarah Kimmel, vice president of research at CMSWire, joined us on CMSWire TV to unpack the findings—and they are must-hear takeaways for every marketing and CX leader out there.

Let’s dive into the most important lessons from these landmark reports.

<h2>CMOs Must Master Three Skill Sets to Stay Competitive</h2>

Dom Nicastro: We kick off with a reality check for marketing leaders. Creative storytelling is still critical—but it’s no longer enough. CMOs need fluency in both data and technology to stay competitive in 2025.

Sarah Kimmel: Right. So the skills that are critical for marketing leaders now are kind of in three distinct buckets. They're related to each other, but they are distinct. The first is skills related to data aggregation, integration and analysis. The second is skills related to advanced marketing technologies like DXP, CMS or gen AI. And the third is creative thinking or storytelling—your core marketing competencies.

Data is critical for ROI, which is more necessary than ever. Marketers are now being held more accountable for spend. Data hygiene and savvy are essential to use marketing tech for personalization or AI. Without clean, integrated data, you won’t get far.

Second, there’s the technology itself. 98% of marketing leaders agreed that executing strategy now requires more advanced tech skills, and 63% strongly agreed. These skills are needed not only to get value from martech like <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/privacy-first-personalization-in-marketing-wins-customer-trust/" target="_blank" title="personalization">personalization</a> and omnichannel delivery, but also for things like prompting gen AI, LLM literacy, and workflow automation.

Dom Nicastro: Modern CMOs are being asked to span three disciplines that used to be separate jobs. You need to be a technologist, a data analyst, and a creative leader—all at once. The takeaway? Build teams that complement your gaps and invest in your own cross-training.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/examining-the-state-of-digital-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="Examining the State of Digital Customer Experience">Examining the State of Digital Customer Experience</a>

<h2>Budget Optimism Returns, but Volatility Lurks</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Marketing leaders have been navigating tight budgets for years. But according to our latest research, they finally saw some daylight in late 2024—though the outlook remains uncertain.

Sarah Kimmel: Two-thirds of marketing leaders say their budgets increased over the last year. Though 44% said it was a slight increase, 84% expect their budgets to increase again in 2025—and a third expect a significant boost. But here’s the caveat: that optimism was captured mostly in December and January. Since then, we’ve seen instability that might shift those expectations. Early-year optimism may not survive ongoing economic volatility, supply chain disruptions, or sudden shifts in customer behavior.

Dom Nicastro: Optimism is great—but agility is better. If you're a CMO banking on a budget bump, make sure you're prepared to pivot if macro conditions shift. This year, your budget strategy needs a backup plan.

<h2>ROI Is the CMO's Top Challenge—And Opportunity</h2>

Dom Nicastro: ROI has always been a sticking point, but now it’s an imperative. CMOs are under immense pressure to justify every dollar—and not just to prove value, but to keep their seat at the table.

Sarah Kimmel: There’s growing pressure for marketing to prove ROI, and it’s hard. More than one in three marketing leaders cite ROI measurement as their top challenge in improving customer experience. 95% say their team is under pressure to show return on marketing spend. But many still don’t have the right data, organization, or measurement skills to get there. So ROI reporting remains a big work-in-progress.

Dom Nicastro: We’re entering an era where intuition takes a backseat to attribution. If you can't measure the impact of your campaigns, someone else will decide your fate. The time to fix your ROI reporting is now—not next quarter.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-inside-the-2025-state-of-the-cmo/" target="_blank" title="CMO Circle: Inside the 2025 State of the CMO">CMO Circle: Inside the 2025 State of the CMO</a>

<h2>Generative AI Is Fast-Tracked, But Still Immature</h2>

Dom Nicastro: AI use in marketing is exploding—but strategy and governance haven’t caught up. For now, it’s full speed ahead, with one hand still reaching for the seatbelt.

Sarah Kimmel: Generative AI has one of the fastest adoption cycles we’ve ever seen. 68% of marketers used it in the past year, and another 23% plan to. But nearly one in three still have no formal guidelines or policies in place. The top use case is content generation. Strategic uses—like workflow automation and personalization—are still behind.

Dom Nicastro: This is a Wild West moment for <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/the-unforeseen-consequences-of-relying-on-ai-in-marketing-strategies/" target="_blank" title="AI in marketing">AI in marketing</a>. It’s not about whether you use it—it’s about how responsibly and strategically you deploy it. Without governance, you’re just gambling with a shiny tool.
<h3>Summary of Key Insights from the 2025 CMO and DCX Playbooks</h3>
This table breaks down the top findings and takeaways from CMSWire's 2025 State of the CMO and State of DCX reports as discussed on CX Decoded.

<table class="bordered">
 <thead>
 <tr>
 <th>Theme</th>
 <th>Key Insight</th>
 <th>Implication</th>
 </tr>
 </thead>
 <tbody>
 <tr>
 <td>CMO skill sets</td>
 <td>CMOs must now master data, technology, and creative strategy to compete.</td>
 <td>Modern marketing leaders need cross-disciplinary fluency or team augmentation.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Marketing budgets</td>
 <td>Budgets are rebounding, with 84% expecting increases in 2025.</td>
 <td>Leaders should remain agile as optimism could be tempered by macroeconomic shifts.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>ROI reporting</td>
 <td>ROI is the #1 challenge for CMOs—yet most teams lack the tools or skills to track it.</td>
 <td>Fixing ROI measurement is urgent to maintain credibility and influence in the C-suite.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Generative AI</td>
 <td>68% of marketers have used GenAI, but most lack governance frameworks.</td>
 <td>AI use must shift from experimentation to strategic deployment with oversight.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Digital experience tools</td>
 <td>DX leaders finally report meaningful improvements in stack effectiveness.</td>
 <td>Now is the time to innovate further atop more integrated, stable foundations.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Personalization</td>
 <td>Momentum is finally building thanks to better data and behavioral insights.</td>
 <td>Organizations must align strategy, tech, and insight to scale personalization.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>Customer behavior</td>
 <td>Rapidly shifting behaviors are outpacing traditional journey modeling.</td>
 <td>Adaptability—not prediction—is the new CX edge.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>CMS resurgence</td>
 <td>82% plan CMS investment; many shifting to AI-integrated or composable platforms.</td>
 <td>CMS is evolving from publishing to experience orchestration infrastructure.</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td>AI as CX foundation</td>
 <td>AI is now the top DCX investment; 45% say GenAI supports half or more of their work.</td>
 <td>AI is becoming the new operating system for modern experience delivery.</td>
 </tr>
 </tbody>
</table>


<h2>DX Teams Are Finally Seeing their Tech Pay off</h2>

Dom Nicastro: After years of complaints about fragmented stacks and underperforming tools, DX leaders are finally seeing traction—and results.

Sarah Kimmel: In 2019, only 9% of organizations said their DCX tools worked well. Half said they were bad and needed major work. It’s taken years, but we’re now seeing clear signs of improvement. Teams feel their stacks are more effective and better integrated—though there are still challenges with overlap, redundancy, and integration.

Dom Nicastro: It took half a decade, but the investment is finally paying off. DX leaders—take this as a green light to go deeper. If the foundation is solid, now’s the time to innovate on top of it.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/personalization-up-confusion-down-not-so-fast-say-cx-leaders/" target="_blank" title="Personalization Up, Confusion Down? Not So Fast, Say CX Leaders">Personalization Up, Confusion Down? Not So Fast, Say CX Leaders</a>

<h2>Personalization Is Finally Moving</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Personalization has been a slow burn. But the fuse has finally caught—and it’s being driven by better tools and deeper behavioral insight.

Sarah Kimmel: Personalization has seen slow, incremental improvement over the last few years. But now we’re seeing real traction. It hinges on two things: understanding your customers’ behavior and having the tech to act on it. Both areas are improving. As tools and behavioral insight mature, personalization is finally gaining momentum.

Dom Nicastro: You can’t fake personalization. You either know your customers or you don’t. What we’re seeing now is the result of hard work aligning data, tech, and strategy—and it’s about time.

<h2>Customer Behavior Is a Moving Target</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Even with better tools and data, customer behavior is still the wild card. In 2025, it’s not about <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/mastering-customer-journey-management-from-silos-to-seamless-cx/" target="_blank" title="mastering the journey">mastering the journey</a>—it’s about mastering the adaptation.

Sarah Kimmel: Customer behavior is evolving so rapidly that it’s hard to model. Organizations cite “behavior changing too quickly” as the top roadblock to understanding customers. Preferences have shifted post-pandemic and continue to shift. Traditional journey models don’t hold up anymore—there’s too much variation. Many orgs also lack the in-house expertise to keep up, and budget constraints only make it harder.

Dom Nicastro: If you're still building CX strategies off last year’s behavior patterns, you're behind. The new competitive edge is responsiveness—reading change and reacting in real time.

<h2>CMS Investment Is Back—and Bigger than Expected</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Remember when people said CMS was dead? Turns out it’s having a renaissance. And AI is fueling the demand.

Sarah Kimmel: This was one of the most surprising findings. 82% of organizations plan to invest in CMS. 30% are building their own, signaling a move to composable architecture. Another 29% are buying new platforms, and 23% are upgrading. The motivation? Integrating AI and machine learning into their experience stacks.

Dom Nicastro: This is about more than content. It’s about experience infrastructure. Your CMS isn’t just a publishing tool anymore—it’s your engine for personalization, automation, and AI-readiness.

<h2>AI Is the Top Investment for DCX Leaders</h2>

Dom Nicastro: We’ll end where a lot of teams are beginning—AI as the foundation of modern customer experience.

Sarah Kimmel: AI and machine learning are now the #1 investment priority for DCX teams—something we’ve never seen before. 45% of CX and marketing leaders say generative AI supports at least half of their work. It’s become the essential glue holding together teams facing tighter budgets and higher demands.

Dom Nicastro: AI isn’t just a tool anymore—it’s the new operating system. DCX teams that figure out how to integrate AI strategically are going to outpace the rest. Fast.

Too many marketers are chasing likes over results.

Season 4, EPISODE 16

Mar 31, 2025

Too many marketers are chasing likes over results. Jim Lecinski, clinical professor of Marketing at Northwestern University and former Google executive, says it’s time to reframe the CMO role—from brand builder to growth driver.
In this episode, he breaks down how to stay customer-obsessed, navigate AI-driven search and get ready for Gen Alpha before they catch you off guard.

CMO Real Talk: Growth, AI and What Gen Alpha Really Wants

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Today, we’ve got a special episode for CMOs and marketing leaders looking to sharpen their strategies for the rest of 2025. We’re pulling together five key takeaways from a fascinating conversation my colleague Michelle Hawley, Editor at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.vktr.com/" target="_blank" title="VKTR.com">VKTR.com</a>, had with Jim Lecinski on the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-the-new-rules-of-marketing/" target="_blank" title="new rules of marketing for 2025">new rules of marketing for 2025</a>.Now, if you don’t know Jim, here’s a quick rundown: He’s a Clinical Professor of Marketing at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.northwestern.edu/" target="_blank" title="Northwestern University">Northwestern University</a>, spent 12 years at Google and wrote <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://books.google.com/books/about/Winning_the_Zero_Moment_of_Truth.html?id=JU4J58bum24C" target="_blank" title="Winning the Zero Moment of Truth">Winning the Zero Moment of Truth</a>. He’s also the author of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Canvas-Five-Stage-Implementing-Intelligence/dp/150361316X" target="_blank" title="The AI Marketing Canvas">The AI Marketing Canvas</a>. With over 30 years in marketing, Jim’s a powerhouse of insights.
So today, we’re going to break down five essential takeaways from his interview—ideas that every <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/marketing-leadership-is-chief-marketing-officer-the-right-title/" target="_blank" title="chief marketing officer">chief marketing officer</a> should be thinking about as they navigate the challenging marketing landscape of 2025.
Let’s jump right in.
<h2>Marketing Must Be a Growth Engine – Not Just a Branding Play</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Let’s start with the biggest priority for any marketing leader—growth. Jim points out that marketers can sometimes lose focus, getting too wrapped up in engagement metrics instead of real business outcomes like revenue, profit, and market share. Let’s hear how he puts it.
Jim Lecinski: Yeah, so I'm glad that you started with growth. Marketing really needs to be a growth engine and drive revenue, profit and share. I think sometimes marketers get a little tripped up and confuse the means and the ends like likes, friends, fans, download, engagement. Those are good things, but those are means to the end of growth. You know, growth is all about the users, right? The customers, the consumers, whether you're in B2B or B2C. And so staying on top of consumer trends really you being close to your customers is a critical function of marketing. Marketers, truly believe marketing should be the closest group within the firm to the customer and be able to bring the voice of the customer back into manufacturing, R&amp;D, sales team, etc., and represent the customer's interest internally.
Dom Nicastro: So, the big takeaway here? CMOs need to rethink their role—they’re not just brand builders, they should be the customer’s loudest voice inside the company. Every marketing decision should tie back to business growth, and engagement alone won’t cut it.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/setting-yourself-up-for-success-as-a-chief-marketing-officer/" target="_blank" title="Setting Yourself Up for Success as a Chief Marketing Officer">Setting Yourself Up for Success as a Chief Marketing Officer</a>
<h2>The 70/20/10 Rule – Balancing Short-Term Wins with Long-Term Strategy</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Now, let’s talk about one of the biggest balancing acts every CMO faces—immediate business needs vs. long-term innovation. Jim breaks this down with the 70/20/10 model—a framework for allocating marketing focus and resources.
Jim Lecinski: So we can't take credit for the base level demand. We only can take credit for the incremental lift relative to the costs of a sales marketing and customer service, fully loaded costs. So that's kind of our ultimate goal. Now, in order to drive that, as you point out, there are near term targets. Many companies have daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly targets, as well as annual targets and three to five year plans. And so, you we need to typically balance the short term versus the long term. We'll call it the core versus the adjacent versus the moonshots with a 70/20/10 model whereby 70% of your focus, your resources, your budget, your energy is focused on kind of delivering the immediacy of the business here and now. Whereas 20 % are thinking about adjacent things, adjacent markets, adjacent customers, adjacent products and services. And 10% are some sort of full diversification, kind of 10x moonshots that make sure that, you know, we're future-proofing ourselves and the business as the landscape will be rapidly changing.
Dom Nicastro: This is gold for CMOs. If you’re spending 100% of your time on today’s business, you’re missing out on future growth opportunities. But if you’re too future-focused, you might not survive long enough to see that innovation pay off. Balance is key.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/preparing-cmos-for-the-next-decade-of-marketing-leadership/" target="_blank" title="Preparing CMOs for the Next Decade of Marketing Leadership">Preparing CMOs for the Next Decade of Marketing Leadership</a>
<h2>AI-Driven Omnichannel Marketing is the Future</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Let’s move into one of the most complex challenges for marketers today—<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/seamless-omnichannel-strategy-best-practices-for-customer-engagement/" target="_blank" title="omnichannel marketing">omnichannel marketing</a>. Jim explains how AI is revolutionizing personalization and making customer interactions seamless across all channels.
Jim Lecinski:&nbsp;Yeah, so omnichannel, obviously a hot topic. And omnichannel has sort of two flavors or two meanings. You referenced one of them, which is sort of the omnichannel communication. And is it an email channel versus a text channel versus a web channel versus an offline channel? And the other meaning that marketers think a lot about when it comes to omnichannel is omnichannel distribution and sales. Are we available online? Are we available in store?
Dom Nicastro: Jim highlights that <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/creating-real-connections-ais-role-in-modern-omnichannel-strategy/" target="_blank" title="modern omnichannel marketing">modern omnichannel marketing</a> isn’t just about being present on multiple channels—it’s about orchestrating them intelligently with AI. If your marketing messages and customer journey aren’t aligned, you’re going to lose them to brands that are getting it right.
<h2>Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) Will Transform Search</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Alright, CMOs, take note—SEO as you know it is changing. With AI-powered search engines like Google SGE, Bing AI and Perplexity, a new era is here: Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). Jim breaks it down.
Jim Lecinski:&nbsp;The good news is some of the same things, still to be determined, this is a work in progress. But it looks like many of the same things that we had learned as an industry in order to be good at SEO and SEM will also carry over into GEO or GEM. Yet at the same time, there appears to be some new things that we'll all need to know how to do. These engines seem to work somewhat like the human brain. They look to conserve energy and not work too hard.
Dom Nicastro: This is critical for marketers—if you don’t adjust your strategy, AI-powered search engines won’t surface your brand. The future is question-based content, natural language responses, and AI-friendly formatting.
<h2>Gen Alpha is Coming—And They’re Different</h2>
Dom Nicastro: Let’s wrap up with a look ahead. Gen Alpha—the first generation to grow up entirely in the digital era—is reaching purchasing power. Jim explains what makes them unique.
Jim Lecinski: Yeah, I think 2025 would be a good homework assignment, a good year for marketers to really start to understand who is Gen Alpha, what they're all about, what makes them tick. As you said, think about Gen X, then Gen Y, then Gen Z, and many brands starting to think about how do I appeal to Gen Z, how do I appeal to millennials.
Very quietly, think it's snuck up on many of us that <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-the-new-rules-of-marketing/" target="_blank" title="Gen Alpha">Gen Alpha</a> is the oldest of them will be turning 16 in 2025. Right. So if you think about like 2010 beyond so, you know, I mean, even if you're not marketing to tweens or teens, I mean, they're reach starting to reach, you know, college age, spending power, buying power, independent decision making. And so to really start to understand what makes these folks tick, I think is super important.
Yeah, you put your finger on it. You know, if you're 12 and you spent three, four years of your life during the global pandemic in lockdown, maybe remote schooling, remote friending, those kinds of things, a third of your life was experienced that way. I mean, for many of us, was a challenging couple of years, but it was just that, a couple of years and a longer life well lived. But for these folks, it's sort of a early defining feature of their lives.
And so what does that mean? That means that they're comfortable with technology, of course, they're not the first generation to do so, but they are comfortable making human connections through technology, right? Because out of necessity, lack of alternative, many of them said, well, this is the only way I can connect with my friends. So they're actually building human connections through technology, through chats, through gaming.
Dom Nicastro: This is your early warning—Gen Alpha will rewrite the marketing rulebook. CMOs need to adapt now or risk being irrelevant when this generation becomes the dominant consumer group.
Big thanks to Jim Lecinski and Michelle Hawley for this insightful conversation. If you liked this episode, subscribe to CX Decoded. Until next time—stay customer-focused and keep innovating!

In this episode of “CX Decoded,” Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, takes a look inside the nuances of brand evolution in today’s digital word, featuring Amber Holm, CMO at Winnebago Industries, and Ranu Coleman, head of marketing at PatPat.

Season 4, EPISODE 15

Nov 27, 2024

In this episode of “CX Decoded,” Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, takes a look inside the nuances of brand evolution in today’s digital word, featuring Amber Holm, CMO at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.winnebagoind.com/" target="_blank" title="Winnebago Industries">Winnebago Industries</a>, and Ranu Coleman, head of marketing at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.patpat.com/" target="_blank" title="PatPat">PatPat</a>. In this episode, both leaders delve into the importance of customer insights in keeping brands relevant — and the challenges that come with repositioning in the consumer space. They also share strategies for maintaining brand integrity, including keeping existing customers happy while reeling in new audiences. Through in-depth interviews originally aired separately on the CMSWire TV show “<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/tag/cmo-circle/" target="_blank" title="The CMO Circle">The CMO Circle</a>,” Holm and Coleman offer a deeper understanding of how established brands can stay ahead through change and innovation.&nbsp;

Future-Proofing Brands: A Deep Dive With Winnebago and PatPat

In this episode of CX Decoded, host Dom Nicastro, editor-in-chief of CMSWire, dives into the future of AI in customer service with insights from three leading experts in the field.

Season 4, EPISODE 14

Oct 31, 2024

In this episode of&nbsp;CX Decoded, host&nbsp;Dom Nicastro, editor-in-chief of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/" target="_blank" title="CMSWire">CMSWire</a>, dives into the future of AI in customer service with insights from three leading experts in the field. This episode brings together discussions from two separate&nbsp;CMSWire TV <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/tag/beyond-the-call/" target="_blank" title="&quot;Beyond the Call&quot;">"Beyond the Call"</a> interviews, featuring&nbsp;Barry Cooper, president of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.nice.com/" target="_blank" title="NICE">NICE</a>’s CX Division;&nbsp;Tom Laird, CEO of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.expiviausa.com/" target="_blank" title="Expivia">Expivia</a>; and&nbsp;Keith Farley, SVP of Individual Voluntary Benefits at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.aflac.com/" target="_blank" title="Aflac">Aflac</a>.The conversation focuses on AI’s role in reshaping contact centers, exploring the transformative effects of AI in real-time decision-making, task automation, agent empowerment and more. Each expert provides unique insights into how their organizations leverage AI to enhance both customer and agent experiences, discussing both the current innovations and their visions for AI’s impact on the industry’s future.

Tomorrow’s Customer Service: AI and the Rise of Empowered Agents

<h3>The Gist</h3>
<ul>
 <li>Real-time decision making. Barry Cooper describes how NICE's AI enhances real-time decision-making, empowering agents with actionable insights.</li>
 <li>Automating routine tasks. Keith Farley talks about balancing automation with empathy, enabling agents to focus on complex, emotionally nuanced interactions.</li>
 <li>Transforming agent experiences. Tom Laird highlights how AI tools are revolutionizing agent tasks, providing improved accuracy and reducing after-call work.</li>
 <li>Future of AI in contact centers. Barry Cooper and Keith Farley envision an agent-bot co-pilot model that shifts the dynamic, enhancing agent roles and customer outcomes.&nbsp;</li></ul>

Editor's note: This transcript was edited for clarity and brevity. This podcast is a derivative of Barry, Tom, and Keith's interviews with Dom Nicastro on the CMSWire TV show Beyond the Call.&nbsp;Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Welcome back to CX Decoded, brought to you by CMSWire. I’m Dom Nicastro, your host, and editor-in-chief here at CMSWire. In this episode, we're weaving together insights from two separate CMSWire TV "Beyond the Call: interviews:<ul><li><a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/contact-center/bots-to-biz-growth-ais-new-role-in-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="Bots to Biz Growth: AI's New Role in Customer Experience">Bots to Biz Growth: AI's New Role in Customer Experience</a></li><li><a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/human-first-how-aflac-combines-ai-with-authentic-connections/" target="_blank" title="Human First: How Aflac Combines AI With Authentic Connection">Human First: How Aflac Combines AI With Authentic Connection</a></li></ul>We've spoken with Barry Cooper, president of NICE’s CX Division, and Tom Laird, CEO of Expivia, as well as Keith Farley, SVP of Individual Voluntary Benefits at Aflac. Today, we get into the role of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/from-robo-to-relatable-make-ai-in-customer-service-more-human/" target="_blank" title="AI in customer service">AI in customer service</a>, demonstrating how it’s being integrated into contact centers for customer and agent experiences alike. But not only AI — we get into the latest innovations in contact centers, customer support, and service even if it doesn’t include our bot friends. Let's dive into our discussion with four key takeaways.<h2>Takeaway 1: Enhancing Real-Time Decision Making</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Our first takeaway examines how AI is enhancing real-time decision-making capabilities, empowering agents with instant insights to better support customer interactions.

Barry Cooper: First of all, AI is not new for NICE. We come from a background of having billions of label interactions. And back in 2019, 2020, we launched Enlighten, which with the first few models based on those kind of labeled interactions. They were mostly around agent behaviors and CSAT, that kind of stuff.

So we've been in, we've been doing this now for this is our fourth year going full out, full swing on AI. Last year, we were able to integrate and include Gen AI into our AI solutions to give a nice semantic front end AI making very nice copilot, autopilot interfaces.

But first thing, this is not new for us. So you probably <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/nice-unveils-cxone-mpower-a-leap-in-cx-aware-ai/" target="_blank" title="heard at Interactions">heard at Interactions</a>. You know, we have over 1,500 customers that use our AI now, billions of AI interventions on our platform happening already. So the whole theme of Interactions was CX AI realized because we get a little bit miffed by all of the hype that's out there that's not real. So if you were at Interactions, you heard from many of our customers that have deployed AI for self service, for knowledge, all that kind of stuff, and achieve great results from that already.

So, you know, for us, we're in kind of stage three of our AI adoption. It's very, very exciting for the company.

I created a couple of years ago a separate AI division within NICE which is now a huge burgeoning division. We have almost every enterprise deal we close now includes AI of some kind, and at a really high level, our AI solutions focus in really three domains, three personas.

First of all is kind of automated intelligence. So that's AI for the consumer, kind of replacing agents on some of the activities, some of the use cases with bots that actually work, that sound like people, that act like people, that do things very, very efficiently. This is category number one.

Category number two is what we call <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/transforming-customer-interactions-with-ai-augmented-cx/" target="_blank" title="augmented intelligence">augmented intelligence</a>. So this is AI for the agents, or for the supervisor or for the administrators that superpower those people allow them to do things they couldn't do before.

And finally, we have, like, AI for the CX leader. And if you've seen it, Enlightened actions, that's exactly what that is, a solution that allows CX leaders to query everything using AI, using a generative AI interface, to find out what's going on, get, you know, make skill changes, all that kind of stuff on the fly.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/ais-role-in-shaping-the-future-of-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="AI's Role in Shaping the Future of Customer Experience">AI's Role in Shaping the Future of Customer Experience</a>

Dom Nicastro: Tom Laird's perspective emphasizes a crucial shift in how AI is being leveraged within contact centers—not just for customer-facing interactions, but more importantly, to transform the agent experience.

Tom Laird: ...And again, we've had these tools, and so many tools have been just customer facing, where AI is really the first kind of platform or group of technologies that we can really go down the funnel to to improve <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/a-4-step-recipe-for-improving-your-contact-center-agent-experience/" target="_blank" title="agent experience">agent experience</a>.

You know, if you look at even things like auto summarization, right, while that can be, you know, kind of a handle time and then kind of just making some things a little bit easier on the KPIs, it's also making things a lot easier on the agent, right? No more memoing, no more mistakes when you're memoing, being able to maybe take a breath instead of working for that 15 seconds or 20 seconds or 30 seconds of after call work. Even looking at, you know, looking at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.ottoqa.com/" target="_blank" title="OttoQA">OttoQA</a>, right, looking at those type of platforms, where, before, we would score two calls per agent per week, and if they failed one, that agent was maybe not going to get their bonus.

But now we have the ability to score multiple calls, up to 100% of calls, and that really paints a better picture, I think, for the agent, for that agent experience.

<h2>Takeaway 2: Automating Routine Tasks</h2>

Dom Nicastro: Our second takeaway dives into how AI is automating routine, mundane tasks, thereby freeing agents to handle more complex and emotionally nuanced interactions.

Keith Farley: It is a balance. I mean, we have to remember that when people reach out to us, it's often one of the worst days of their life. They've been diagnosed with a disease, maybe they've lost a loved one, maybe they've been in an accident. They could be in physical pain. So it's not like reaching out to someone to order a pizza or to book a flight, you know, or to buy a shirt. I mean, it is. It is a much deeper emotional experience.

And one of the things that we try to remember when we balance technology and empathy and all the buzz is AI as well it should be, because it's exciting. But the first word in AI is artificial, and sometimes what you want is authentic, not artificial. And so we try to remember, let's be authentic. Let's remember where people are coming from when they reach out to us, where their mindset is. They might be calling us from a hospital or a doctor's office or at home again, if they've been dealt some bad news. So we want to make sure that we've got a human-first approach.

Now we do use <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/6-ai-automation-trends-in-omnichannel-cx/" target="_blank" title="AI and automation">AI and automation</a> to handle more of the simple things. So you need to change your address, that's a job for AI. You know, you want to update some billing information or add a dependent, remove a dependent, that can be handled with self-service tools, digital tools, or AI, but when you need to talk through a diagnosis and understand your coverages, that's when we think it's probably right for most people to speak to a human. Some people still want to do it all digital, but we want to make sure that it's omnichannel, however you want to have it, we can do it, whether it's with a human or if you want to work with one of the automations.

Dom Nicastro: And what if the agents are the ones who are empowered to get the most out of the bots? What if the agent is the assistant to the AI bot?

Barry Cooper: And the really interesting thing is, today we talk about Enlighten being the co-pilot to the agent. You know, pretty soon the agent's going to be the co-pilot for Enlighten, and that is, you know, the bots are going to be handling a lot of the interactions, but every now and again, a bot’s going to run into trouble, and the bot’s going to put its hand up, and it's going to be the agent that gets in there and helps the bot out.

So it's this role reversal that we see is going to happen over the next few years or so. So we're creating solutions that are actually going to enable that. So I truly believe that come three, four, or five years from now, the role of an agent is going to be turned on its head, and they'll be overseeing all these AI bots doing different things. And it's going to be very, very interesting.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/the-wrong-way-to-do-cx-automation/" target="_blank" title="The Wrong Way to Do CX Automation">The Wrong Way to Do CX Automation</a>
<h2>Takeaway 3: Improving Agent and Customer Experience</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;For our third takeaway, we look at how contact centers are inspiring agents and customer experience by providing in-depth insights and predictive analytics, enhancing the overall service quality."

Tom Laird:&nbsp;I'm a huge analytics person. It's been one of the biggest drivers of our business, not just from a cultural aspect, but even from a monetary aspect, with other customers, being able to really dissect and give marketing data, right, where nobody thought that that could happen. So, like, Enlighten actions, for me is like, how, right? It's like, you know, I don't want to look at dashboards anymore, right? I want to ask specific questions and get those answers. And I think that's the stuff that's really cool, that's really exciting, that, you know, you don't have to be that giant, smart, PhD analyst, right to do analytics, to get really deep insights into what's happening.

So the customer experience is, I don't want to say it's going to take care of itself, but, you know, we're working on that. The agent experience is being worked on, and I think also this analytic piece right, of really digging deep into data, because now it's not just, it's not just <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/the-troubled-migration-to-cloud-contact-centers/" target="_blank" title="CCaaS">CCaaS</a> or telephony data, but it's your sales data, it's your marketing data. It's having all these different data sources together, and how do we really utilize that as a business-changing opportunity, instead of, again, that's where the contact center really starts to take off as a driver of business, instead of just that, the thing that answers the painful calls from customers.

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;And when it comes to some of those key analytics, what’s top of mind for Keith?

Keith Farley:&nbsp;I would say the number one that we look for is ease. And in today's world, if it's not easy, you're not going to do it. You have choices. You have selections you're going to go with. You know, the one that was easy to do.

So we have E-scores that are measured via post call surveys. That's the number one metric for our contact centers to say, was this easy on a scale of one to 10? How easy was this? We do look at things like, you know, average, handle time, speed to answer. You know, you have to if you're running a contact center, you need those metrics to keep the engine going. Yeah.

But the one that really matters at the end, it doesn't matter how quickly you answer my call are, from a metric standpoint, internally, how short the call was, right? Or for the policyholder doesn't want to spend a lot of time….was I able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish? And was it easy? So that's the main thing for us."

<h2>Takeaway 4: The Future of AI in Customer Service</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Our final takeaway looks forward to the future of AI in customer service, imagining the innovative applications yet to come that will further transform the contact center landscape. Let’s start with Keith.

Keith Farley:&nbsp;Yeah, I would say for us, it's all about claims automation. It's leveraging AI. AI can read all of the paperwork, including the doctor's handwriting, which is amazing, because humans can't read doctor's handwriting.

But you know the ability to automate claims right now, where over 55% our claims are automated, where the computer can literally read your policy and read the hospital notes of what happened and match up exactly what the payment should be. And that means that we're going to have faster payments, higher quality payments, you know, in many cases, that are straight through the process.

So for us, you know, when you go back to ease and customer experience, you know, when folks have something happen, they just want to be paid, and they want to be paid quickly. And so I would say automation, and some of the things that we're doing there with AI is probably our next new frontier.

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;Barry says the future is simply limitless when it comes to CX.

Barry Cooper:&nbsp;If anyone is listening to this, you're probably in the CX space, and CX has never been as important as it is today. You know, we like to say that CX, you know, is no longer just part of the business. CX is the business now.

So many industries, you know, become commoditized and the products, there's only so much you can do with pricing, and many of the products become the same. So the only way that organizations can differentiate themselves and win new customers is CX.

And you see how hot the space is right now, the amount of dollars being invested, our growth, you know, we're double digit growth now from years and years and years, you know, we've come from being a half a billion dollar company just a few years ago to approaching $3 billion now.

So just the amount of investment, the amount of excitement. What I love is that, you know, I get to look at some of the lab stuff we're doing that's maybe two or three years away. That stuff is incredible, guys; it's going to be game changing when it comes, you know. Anyone loves to be at the forefront of revolutions. This is a <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/ai-in-customer-experience-the-impact-on-customer-journeys/" target="_blank" title="revolution in CX">revolution in CX</a>. The amount being invested is huge, and the space is going to transform, because CX is so important.

Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;And finishing up…..Tom Laird’s thoughts about the future? A more empowered – and richer – contact center agent.

Tom Laird:&nbsp;We're in a weird spot as an industry, because I think when I look out at where even my company will be in, say, three to five years, we've turned from a contact center outsourcer that supplies agents to answer calls, to now really a CX technology partner that specializes in contact center outsourcing, right?

Meaning, I think that the contact center associate that now is maybe that entry level person is about to become one of the most high valued employees in your organization, because they're not going to handle that stuff as to Barry's point AI is going to take 30, 40% of all the tasks away, and it's going to leave us with these really difficult tasks that maybe 10 years from now, it starts to take care of.

But right now, I think that we're trying to figure out what that line is, and as in, technology is just going so fast, right? Sometimes it can be hard to figure out really, where that is. At the same point, we do have to do that. We in our initial education even how to talk, right? Like there's different everybody texts now. Like, if we have younger employees that are 20-30 years old, right, they've grown up with a cell phone their whole life, they're texting more than they're talking. So you do have to do a lot of that from a contact center agent standpoint, I think AI is trying to help with that a little bit as well.

But again, I think we're in a bridge point right now that we have this conversation in a couple years, I think you're going to see that contact center agent position elevated, much higher pay, doing much more difficult tasks because of what's happening on the on the AI standpoint.

<h2>AI and the Future of Customer Service and Customer Support</h2>
Dom Nicastro:&nbsp;And that wraps up today's episode on where AI and innovation meet customer service. As we've heard from our experts, the infusion of AI into customer service not only streamlines operations but profoundly enriches the roles of those at the heart of customer interactions. Thank you to Barry, Tom, and Keith for sharing their insights. Stay tuned to CX Decoded for more discussions that help you navigate the evolving landscape of customer experience. Until next time, keep innovating and stay customer-focused!

In this episode of CX Decoded, Dom Nicastro and Michelle Hawley of CMSWire discuss the evolving roles of chief marketing officers (CMOs) with insights from CMOs Gurdeep Dhillon of Contentstack and Kathie Johnson of Sitecore.

Season 4, EPISODE 13

Sep 30, 2024

In this episode of CX Decoded, Dom Nicastro and Michelle Hawley of CMSWire discuss the evolving roles of chief marketing officers (CMOs) with insights from CMOs Gurdeep Dhillon of Contentstack and Kathie Johnson of Sitecore. The episode highlights the significance of a structured onboarding process for new CMOs, showcasing Johnson’s approach that emphasizes people, processes and performance. It also explores the necessity for CMOs to balance innovation with current market demands, advocating for alignment with actual customer needs rather than innovation for its own sake.Dhillon shares his strategies for building and managing effective teams in a remote work environment, focusing on personal connections and understanding individual team members' motivations. Both Dhillon and Johnson emphasize the crucial role of communication and team involvement in decision-making, which not only empowers teams but also aligns them with the company’s strategic objectives.

90-Day CMOs: Foundational Marketing Leadership Defined

<h3>The Gist</h3>
 <ul><li>Structured Onboarding: Kathie Johnson shares her structured approach to the first 90 days as CMO at Sitecore, emphasizing the three pillars of people, process, and performance.</li><li>Remote Leadership: Gurdeep Dhillon discusses his strategies for building rapport and managing teams in a fully remote environment, emphasizing personal connections and strategic alignment.</li><li>Innovation vs. Market Needs: Both CMOs discuss the balance between pushing for innovation and aligning with current market demands, stressing the importance of customer-centric strategies in leadership roles. </li></ul>
<h2>Episode Highlights</h2>
 <ul>
 <li>Leadership Dynamics: Kathie Johnson discusses the dynamics of stepping into a high-stakes leadership role and the importance of establishing a rapport with the team and aligning everyone towards common goals.</li>
 <li>Cultural Integration: Gurdeep Dhillon emphasizes the significance of integrating a strong company culture that supports remote work while maintaining high levels of engagement and operational efficiency.</li>
 <li>Customer-Centric Strategies: Both CMOs dive into the shift toward more customer-centric marketing strategies, discussing how these strategies drive the product development and innovation process.</li>
 <li>Impactful Communication: The episode touches on how transformative communication can be when implemented from the top down, fostering an environment where every team member feels heard and valued.</li>
 </ul>

<h2>Episode Transcript</h2>

 Editor's note: This transcript was edited for clarity and brevity. This podcast is a derivative of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-navigating-the-onboarding-journey-a-new-cmos-approach/" target="_blank" title="Johnson's interview with Nicastro">Johnson's interview with Nicastro</a> and <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-strategic-insights-from-one-cmos-first-90-days/" target="_blank" title="Dhillon's interview with Hawley">Dhillon's interview with Hawley</a> on the CMSWire TV show <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/tag/cmswire-cmo-circle/" target="_blank" title="CMO Circle">CMO Circle</a>.Dom Nicastro (Dom):&nbsp;Hey everyone, welcome back to CX Decoded, your go-to podcast where we dive into the latest trends and insights shaping the customer experience world. I’m Dom Nicastro, editor-in-chief at CMSWire, and I’m here with my colleague, the always insightful Michelle Hawley, senior editor of CMSWire. How’s it going, Michelle?
 Michelle Hawley (Michelle):&nbsp;Hey Dom! I’m doing good over here. And I’m really excited to get into today’s episode because we’ve got some gold for our listeners from two top CMOs — Gurdeep Dhillon from <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.contentstack.com/" target="_blank" title="Contentstack">Contentstack</a> and Kathie Johnson from <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.sitecore.com/" target="_blank" title="Sitecore">Sitecore</a> — both of whom gave us incredible insights during our CMO Circle interviews.
 Dom:&nbsp;Yeah, and somehow we actually got two <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/5-findings-from-the-2024-state-of-digital-customer-experience-report/" target="_blank" title="digital customer experience">digital customer experience</a> vendors into one room, which is a miracle! But seriously, today’s episode isn’t about their products, it’s about their <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/marketing-leadership-is-chief-marketing-officer-the-right-title/" target="_blank" title="marketing leadership">marketing leadership</a>. Gurdeep and Kathie didn’t just talk about their companies — they gave us some powerful takeaways on being CMOs in today’s fast-changing landscape.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Exactly! We’ll be pulling directly from those interviews and diving into the lessons they’ve shared that go way beyond their products and into their approaches to leadership, strategy, and AI. So let’s get right into it!

<section>
 <h2>Takeaway No. 1: The Importance of Onboarding as a CMO</h2>
 Dom:&nbsp;So, let’s start with our first takeaway — onboarding as a CMO. When Kathie Johnson took on her role as the CMO of Sitecore, she came in with a really clear and structured plan for her first 90 days. Here’s what she shared with us about that process:
 Kathie Johnson:&nbsp;I really built out a very detailed 30, 60, 90 day plan, which is all about the three pillars that I feel are so important when you're onboarding: people, process, which includes tools, and performance. And I spend a lot of time digging in.&nbsp;
She continues her insights on the people side, process and technology side, and performance measures.
Dom:&nbsp;Kathie really nails the importance of making that human connection, especially when you’re new to a team. It’s not just about coming in and shaking things up. It’s about learning, building trust, and getting a real feel for the landscape before you start making big moves.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Definitely. And what I love about her approach is that it’s not just about meeting people — it’s about understanding the processes and technologies that are already in place and finding ways to optimize them. A lot of times, new CMOs just come in guns blazing, but Kathie really emphasizes getting that lay of the land first.
 Michelle:&nbsp;And speaking of onboarding, Gurdeep Dhillon from Contentstack also had some great insights on joining a team, especially in a fully remote environment. Here’s what he had to say about how he built rapport with his team from the get-go:
 Gurdeep Dhillon:&nbsp;Sometimes there's an assumption that when someone enters into a new role, especially at an executive level, especially external, that the team needs an overhaul. It's funny because what I've found is actually that's not often the case.
 He continues discussing building rapport with his team, the importance of understanding team motivations, and fostering team engagement virtually and in-person.
 Michelle:&nbsp;I love that Gurdeep prioritized getting to know his team face-to-face — even if it meant taking that extra step to organize an offsite early on. In a remote world, that personal connection is still so important.
 Dom:&nbsp;Yeah, it’s such a key point, especially in remote settings where it’s easy to feel disconnected. And Gurdeep makes it clear that remote teams don’t have to feel distant. With some effort, you can still build that camaraderie and trust, which are essential for long-term success.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-navigating-the-onboarding-journey-a-new-cmos-approach/" target="_blank" title="CMO Circle: Navigating the Onboarding Journey: A New CMO's Approach">CMO Circle: Navigating the Onboarding Journey: A New CMO's Approach</a>
</section>
<section>
 <h2>Takeaway No. 2: Balancing Innovation and Current Market Demands</h2>
 Dom:&nbsp;Alright, moving on to our next takeaway. One of the toughest challenges CMOs face today is balancing innovation with the actual needs of the market. Kathie had a great point about this.
 Kathie Johnson:&nbsp;I really focus in on what's working, what's not working from a pipeline perspective, but then also messaging and positioning. Are we differentiated?
 She continues discussing the key pillars around performance and understanding the business.
 Dom:&nbsp;Kathie’s so right here. We hear so much about innovation, but what really matters is if that innovation is addressing what your customers actually need today. You can be as cutting-edge as you want, but if the market isn’t ready for it or doesn’t need it, you’re wasting resources.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Exactly. It’s that balance between forward-thinking and practical execution. Kathie’s focus on positioning and messaging as key differentiators really shows that she’s not just about chasing shiny objects — it’s about delivering what works.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Now let’s bring in Gurdeep’s take on this. He also touched on how Contentstack needed to shift from high-level messaging around innovation to more targeted, market-aligned strategies.
 Gurdeep Dhillon:&nbsp;Obviously we play in the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/navigating-the-evolution-from-cms-to-dxp-in-the-digital-age/" target="_blank" title="CMS space">CMS space</a> and marketing's job is to own and drive the pipeline. And so when I came in, it was a really interesting situation where we weren't focused in our demand generation efforts.
 He continues discussing the need to align innovation with market demands, using the example of "<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/the-benefits-and-challenges-of-composable-digital-experience-platforms/" target="_blank" title="composable DXP ">composable DXP"</a>&nbsp;versus "<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-experience/headless-cms-the-epic-battle-with-monolithic-platforms/" target="_blank" title="headless CMS.&quot;">headless CMS."</a>
 Michelle:&nbsp;Gurdeep is speaking to that same balancing act. They were pushing for innovation with "composable DXP," but the market wanted "headless CMS." Once they made that pivot to meet demand, things started clicking.
 Dom:&nbsp;Right, it’s a great lesson in listening to your customers and understanding where they are, not just where you want them to be. Gurdeep’s shift had real results, and it shows that aligning innovation with market needs is what drives actual success.Related Article: <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-strategic-insights-from-one-cmos-first-90-days/" target="_blank" title="CMO Circle: Strategic Insights From One CMO's First 90 Days">CMO Circle: Strategic Insights From One CMO's First 90 Days</a>
</section>
<section>
 <h2>Takeaway No. 3: Team Empowerment and Accountability in Face of Change</h2>
 Dom:&nbsp;Moving into our third and final takeaway, Kathie talked about the importance of empowering your team and giving them ownership over their work. And overcoming any fear of change when a new marketing leader comes in.
 Kathie Johnson: "People are afraid of change, and I do try to keep that in my mind. And honestly, they're most afraid when there's an absence of communication or an absence of clarity."
 She continues discussing the importance of clear communication, celebrating team successes, and sharing her playbook with the team.
 Dom:&nbsp;This approach from Kathie shows how vital it is to empower teams through clear communication. When you allow people to bring their unique skills and passions to the table, you get a much more engaged and driven team.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Absolutely. Giving people the space to take ownership over their work by empowering them through constant communication creates a sense of accountability, but also drives innovation because they’re invested in the outcome. It’s not just a task on their to-do list anymore; it’s something they’re personally connected to.
 Michelle:&nbsp;And Gurdeep echoed this sentiment when he talked about team involvement in decision-making.
 Gurdeep Dhillon: "I think it's really important that everybody in the organization feels like they had a hand in architecting the solution. And the solution could be macro or micro."
 He continues discussing the value of team involvement in brainstorming sessions and strategic initiatives.
 Michelle:&nbsp;Gurdeep is spot on. It’s all about making your team feel like they’re part of the bigger picture, which boosts morale and leads to better outcomes.
 Dom:&nbsp;Yeah, you can’t expect great results if your team doesn’t feel empowered to take initiative and bring their own ideas to the table. Both Kathie and Gurdeep clearly understand the importance of that.Dom:&nbsp;Alright, that’s it for today’s episode of CX Decoded. Huge thanks to Gurdeep Dhillon and Kathie Johnson for their incredible insights from their CMSWire TV interviews. And as always, thank you, Michelle, for another great chat.Michelle:&nbsp;Thanks, Dom. And thank you to everyone listening. Be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and stay tuned for more episodes as we keep decoding the latest trends in CX and marketing leadership.Dom:&nbsp;See you all next time on <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/podcasts/cx-decoded/" target="_blank" title="CX Decoded">CX Decoded</a>!</section>

In this episode of CX Decoded, Dom Nicastro, editor-in-chief at CMSWire, and Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, explore the intersection of employee experience (EX) and customer experience (CX) within the marketing landscape.

Season 4, EPISODE 12

Aug 25, 2024

In this episode of CX Decoded, Dom Nicastro, editor-in-chief at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/" target="_blank" title="CMSWire">CMSWire</a>, and&nbsp;Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, explore the intersection of employee experience (EX) and customer experience (CX) within the marketing landscape. The episode features insights from&nbsp;Gautam Pantakar, GM of <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.oldfieldsc.com/" target="_blank" title="Oldfield">Oldfield</a>, and&nbsp;DeLu Jackson, executive VP and chief marketing officer at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.adt.com/" target="_blank" title="ADT">ADT</a>.Gautam&nbsp;delves into the importance of cultivating a strong organizational culture to enhance both <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/why-great-employee-experience-leads-to-great-customer-experience/" target="_blank" title="employee and customer experiences">employee and customer experiences</a>.&nbsp;DeLu&nbsp;shares his approach to fostering innovation and emotional connections with customers, emphasizing the vital role that employees play in the overall customer journey.Through these in-depth interviews, originally aired separately on the <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/tag/cmswiretv/" target="_blank" title="CMSWire TV">CMSWire TV</a> shows “<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/customer-experience/empanadas-and-engagement-crafting-better-cx-and-ex-with-gautam-pantakar/" target="_blank" title="Beyond the Call">Beyond the Call</a>" and <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/cmo-circle-adts-cmo-delu-jackson-on-innovating-a-150-year-old-brand/" target="_blank" title="“CMO Circle,”">“CMO Circle,”</a>&nbsp;Pantakar&nbsp;and&nbsp;Jackson&nbsp;offer their unique perspectives on connecting EX to CX to drive business success.

Empanadas and Home Security: How Employee Experience Shapes Customer Loyalty

In this episode of CX Decoded, Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, covers the convergence of humanity and technology in today’s marketing landscape, featuring insights from Karna Crawford, CMO at Marqeta, and Tom Wentworth, CMO at Recorded Future.

Season 4, EPISODE 11

Jul 23, 2024

In this episode of CX Decoded, Michelle Hawley, senior editor at CMSWire, covers the convergence of humanity and technology in today’s marketing landscape, featuring insights from Karna Crawford, CMO at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.marqeta.com/" target="_blank" title="Marqeta">Marqeta</a>, and Tom Wentworth, CMO at <a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.recordedfuture.com/" target="_blank" title="Recorded Future">Recorded Future</a>.&nbsp;In this episode, Karna shares her insights on how to bring a little bit of humanity into B2B marketing — while still getting all the benefits of modern-day technology. And Tom takes us through his strategic use of in-house media to build trust and credibility in the cybersecurity space.Through in-depth interviews originally aired separately on the CMSWire TV show “<a rel="noopener noreferrer" href="https://www.cmswire.com/tag/cmo-circle/" target="_blank" title="The CMO Circle">The CMO Circle</a>,” Crawford and Wentworth walks us through their very different paths to achieving success in the marketing world.&nbsp;

Mind and Machine: Two Different Paths to Marketing Mastery

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