Interview
The Gist
- Peak‑end memory matters. Customers often remember the emotional high point and final moment of their journey most vividly—turning negative peaks into positive ones is a CX superpower.
- Listen beyond surveys. Traditional feedback channels miss nuance. Intuit taps into behavioral signals like rage clicks, social posts and agent conversations to surface deeper insights.
- Human touches scale loyalty. From multi-channel e-file rescue outreach to handwritten letters and cookies, small gestures build long-term trust and brand love.
What do worms, cookies and rage clicks have in common? In this CMSWire TV episode, I chat with Daniel Thrall, group Manager of customer experience at Intuit, about the unexpected—but essential—emotional dynamics behind great customer experiences. Drawing on behavioral economics principles like the peak-end rule, Thrall shares how Intuit uses empathy, follow-up systems and AI-enhanced feedback analysis to reduce friction and build long-term customer loyalty. From tax season stress to surprise swag, this episode delivers both heart and CX strategy.
From the Classroom to TurboTax
Opening Up With a Shared Love of Movement
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Hey everybody, Dom Nicastro from CMSWire TV, editor‑in‑chief of CMSWire.com, and we're here with our latest guest. It's going to be Daniel Thrall, Group Manager, Customer Experience at Intuit. What's going on, Daniel?
Daniel: Dom, it's great to be here with you. What is going on? It is a Friday and the weather's perfect and I'm dreaming of the bike ride at the end of my day when work is done. And so that's foremost in my mind right now.
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Same. We all have to move somehow, Daniel, and my moving is taking the four‑legged canine around. That's how I get my exercise, so I'm looking forward to that myself.
Daniel: Good, good, good, good. You deserve it.
The Path to Intuit
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Beautiful day, but we connected with you through a mutual friend of CMSWire, Marietta Silva‑Allison, who has shared her perspectives on employee experience alignment and AI in customer experience.
Daniel: Yeah, true. I would describe my route to the tax world as quite circuitous. I spent nine years as a high school teacher in Tucson, Arizona, trying to balance grad‐school loans, family life, and financial stress. Eventually, I pursued an MBA and a friend encouraged me to apply to Intuit because of its strong focus on omnichannel strategies.
Persistence paid off—I applied repeatedly until I was hired. My background in education and passion for learning convinced the team to take a chance, and I’ve now been at TurboTax for nine and a half years.
My mission has been to turn taxes—a mandatory and often stressful process—into a less painful, more reassuring experience for users through friction reduction and AI‑driven journey insights.
From Worms to Write‑Offs
Daniel: I once spent $20 a pound on worms for my son’s class project. I thought, “Can I write off worms?” That fear of being audited sparked our FUD mindset—fear, uncertainty, and doubt—that so many customers experience during tax season.
Understanding and addressing that FUD is central to our CX approach. We use customer journey mapping and Voice of the Customer (VoC) techniques to identify drop‑off points and smooth out the process.
Where Daniel’s Team Fits In
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Tell me about your team’s role within the broader customer success organization at Intuit.
Daniel: We sit under the customer success umbrella, but our focus is distinct from operations. Our emphasis is on reducing friction with a frictionless customer experience. We analyze user behavior, VoC feedback, and journey data to find and fix friction points in the tax‑filing funnel, helping customers complete the process efficiently and confidently.
Applying Behavioral Science to CX
Daniel’s Nerdy Passion Meets CX
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: One of the platforms you work around is behavioral economics, right? You’re passionate about that and behavioral science. How does that fit into your day‑to‑day?
Daniel: It's a nerdy passion that I get to plug into my work. I picked up Daniel Kahneman’s Thinking Fast and Slow, and it blew my mind. It dives into how human decision‑making is often irrational—or rational in unexpected ways.
Understanding the Peak‑End Rule
Daniel: A key concept from Kahneman is the peak‑end rule. It shows how people recall an experience not by averaging all moments, but by heavily weighing the emotional peak and the end.
If a marriage had ups and downs over 20 years, but ended badly, that negative ending colors everything—even if most memories were good. The same applies in CX: a stellar customer journey can be overshadowed by a bad last interaction.
Transforming Service Recovery Into A Win
Daniel: In service recovery—which I led for five years—if things go wrong, that’s often the negative peak. But a strong recovery can flip it: “Your food arrived cold? Here’s how we’ll fix it.” Customers remember that rescue positively, sometimes even more than a flawless experience.
Real‑World Example With Jeans
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: I experienced that with a coffee‑machine brand—they sent me a replacement model right away, no hassle, even though it was out of warranty. I remember that 13 years later!
Daniel: Similarly, I ordered expensive jeans—twice the normal price. The vendor accidentally sent two pairs in different colors and said “just keep both.” That little “screw-up” and generous fix flipped me from frustrated to delighted. That’s peak‑end in action.
Listening Beyond Surveys With Data & AI
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: From a CX-leader standpoint, you have to find out who’s unhappy and why. Sentiment analysis and text analytics are big on the agenda.
Daniel: Traditional surveys are skewed—they attract only extreme opinions (“best” or “worst”) and most users don’t bother. So we use tools that show where users drop off, like funnel analytics and identifying rage clicks. That gives clear signals of frustration without survey responses.
On the service side, we use text‑analytics and generative AI to analyze call transcripts. We identify language patterns from successful and failed outcomes. That kind of in‑game feedback—rather than post‑game surveys—is how we uncover real customer pain and opportunity.
Related Article: Using the Peak-End Rule for Better Customer Journeys
Turning Rejections Into Relief With Multi‑Channel Outreach
Peak‑End in Action With Appointment Reminders
Daniel: I give big props to dentists who text reminders for appointments—it ties directly into the peak‑end rule during tax season.
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When E‑File Rejections Create Stress
Daniel: About five years ago, I led service recovery at TurboTax. One common pain point is when an electronic file is rejected—like mismatched adjusted gross income. A positive journey can quickly turn into a negative experience at the very end.
A Relentless Follow‑Up Strategy
Daniel: We developed a multi‑channel follow-up system—email, text, automated calls, live calls—to reach users until the issue is resolved. The message is clear: “We’re here 100% to help you disentangle the problem and file successfully.”
Building Trust That Lasts
Daniel: When users get it filed after rejection, they return the next year. The effort shows they’re valued as individuals—not just as part of the 40 million users TurboTax serves.
Hand‑Written Notes and Human Touch
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: You mentioned handwritten letters and surprises—what’s the ROI?
Daniel: I’ve sent cookies and thank-you notes to guests on my TurboTax podcast. There’s science behind it—acts of kindness create lasting loyalty. Handwritten cards are rare and memorable. Big companies that mail flowers when pets pass? That goes viral. It signals they truly care about you as a person.
Priorities Looking Ahead
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: What’s top of mind for you this year?
Daniel: We're pushing the “money space”—helping customers get refunds faster and offering low-interest loans for balance due. Understanding the psychology of money is critical—financial stress affects relationships and well-being.
Related Article: AI in Customer Experience: Powerful Use Cases You Shouldn't Ignore
Summary of Key Takeaways
This table outlines the core themes discussed in Daniel Thrall’s CMSWire TV appearance, highlighting the strategies, tools and mindsets shaping Intuit’s customer experience efforts.
| Theme | Insight | Example or Application |
|---|---|---|
| Peak-End Rule | Emotional highs and endings weigh heavily in how customers recall an experience. | Rescuing a failed e-file with multi-channel outreach creates loyalty despite initial failure. |
| Behavioral Signals | Insights come from behavior, not just surveys. | Tools track drop-off points, rage clicks and failed outcomes to pinpoint friction. |
| Human Touch | Personal gestures increase emotional connection with customers. | Handwritten notes, cookies and surprise swag reinforce care and elevate brand perception. |
| Multi-Channel Follow-Up | Relentless support reduces abandonment and builds trust. | Email, SMS, robocalls and human follow-ups help resolve rejected tax filings faster. |
| Tool Adoption | Having tools isn’t enough—teams must overcome status quo bias to use them effectively. | Change management needed to integrate AI, analytics and new platforms into daily CX workflows. |
| Agent Empowerment | Agents are a key source of real-time CX insights. | Intuit runs agent roundtables to inform strategy directly from the front lines. |
Using AI Tools and Conversations to Drive Change
Daniel: Tools are available—text analytics, behavioral insights, journey mapping coupled with AI-powered CX—but adoption requires change management. You also need qualitative methods—“follow-me-homes” or agent round tables—to surface real customer stories and inform strategy.
Agent Insights Shape Strategy
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Agent round tables—love that phrase. Intuit agents are empowering business improvements.
Daniel: Yes—agents help inform strategy. When you involve them, they’re not just calming upset customers—they’re telling you what needs to change.
Closing Thoughts
Dom Nicastro, CMSWire: Daniel Thrall, thanks for sharing so many impactful CX strategies—multi-channel outreach, handwritten care, psychology-driven financial tools. It’s been enlightening.
Daniel: Thank you, Dom. Appreciate the thoughtful conversation on how to serve customers better.
